Needing Some Advice

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

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Needing Some Advice

Postby zeramant86 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:46 am

I just wanted to pose this question, to determine how to proceed. I'm a new player, 2-3 months that throws right hand forehand almost exclusively. I can throw some backhand, but it just feels un-natural. I played baseball for many years and threw sidearm there also. I'm wondering if there is a disc or technique that will allow me to fade left with my throwing RHFH. I've done this a few times by intentionally angling my throw to make it cut left, but I can't do so consistently, and they often still stabilize and fade back right at the end. So if anyone knows of a disc that would work, or a throw technique, it would be greatly appreciated. It may be that I just have to keep working on my backhand to build my strength, I just prefer throwing forehand.

This is about where I'm at now, with a controlled throw RHFH
Groove 300-325 with an S path
Ape 275-300 straight then hard right fade
Roc 200-225 varies by release angle, typically straight with slow fade right
My Bag
Blizzard Ape
Prodigy D3 400G
Champion Groove
Champion Destroyer
Champion Mamba
Champion Glow Valkyrie
Lat64 Saint Opto
DX Viking
Lat64 River Gold
Prodigy F2 Clear
Cheetah DX
Classic Roc R+
Champion Classic Aviar
Omega AP
Wizard SSS
DX Birdie
zeramant86
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby itlnstln » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:13 am

Valkyrie
Leopard
Roadrunner
Sidewinder

Keep the weights in the 160s and you might want to stick to DX plastic where you can. There are many other discs as well, but for goodness' sake, get rid of the Groove and Ape. Those are waaaaaay too much disc for your power level.
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby zeramant86 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:27 pm

So what exactly is the relationship for the high speed discs then? I had another guy tell me that I would be able to throw the valkyrie more accurately than the groove, but he didn't elaborate as to why. He just said it matched my arm. I'm assuming that I'll lose some distance, but gain some accuracy between the groove and valkyrie?
My Bag
Blizzard Ape
Prodigy D3 400G
Champion Groove
Champion Destroyer
Champion Mamba
Champion Glow Valkyrie
Lat64 Saint Opto
DX Viking
Lat64 River Gold
Prodigy F2 Clear
Cheetah DX
Classic Roc R+
Champion Classic Aviar
Omega AP
Wizard SSS
DX Birdie
zeramant86
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby luma » Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:49 pm

A Forehand that has to go left will always be more difficult than a backhand that is fading out. Due to the spin direction of the disc (counter- or clockwise) it will fade to the right with a FH and left with a BH. when you want a FH to go left you need to utilize the Turn of a disc. When it is either thrown fast or it flutters (which is mostly to non-clean releases, shouldn't be done on purpose) it will turn the other direction on the beginning of the flight. Meaning a FH for you will turn left at the beginning but still fade out right at the and of the flight path. Getting the release angle, height and speed of your throw exactly right for that throw is more difficult than using the fade at the end of the flight. That's why I would to learn a backhand. Don't get me wrong, you can still be good with your forehand, you'll just never be as consistent with it when you need to curve it left.

Now,with the "speed" of a disc...let's say it like this: every disc has its "perfect speed". Travelling at that speed it will fly straight, thrown faster it will turn (as mentioned above) and thrown slower (like at the end of the flight when it slows down due to the drag and friction of the air) it will fade out. A higher speed disc with the same stability will need more speed to reach that straight flight speed, which means if you haven't got the form to achieve the speed and rotation for a higher speed disc, it will just fade out on you very early. Another effect that exaggerates this is that the higher the speed of a disc, the more turn/fade sensitive is. A putter for example will never have a huge S flight pattern due to it's shape. A driver will have more of an S flight. Meaning a driver with more speed will also fade harder than one with less speed.

So, more speed -> earlier fade (if you haven't got the arm for it) and harder fade.
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby zeramant86 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:24 am

That makes sense, the valkyrie seems like the slower version of the groove number wise. I threw a friends the other day, and it was like a bullet. I consistently out threw my groove, where I didn't have room for the S path on tight drives. I'm sure even though I'm not using it to full potential, I've really taken a liking to the blizzard ape. I can throw it high 20-25ft and use the fade to pull it around obstacles. It's really handy around a couple of the holes because of tree placement.

Basically, I need to suck it up and build up my backhand sounds like. I figured that'd be the case, I just wanted to double check.
My Bag
Blizzard Ape
Prodigy D3 400G
Champion Groove
Champion Destroyer
Champion Mamba
Champion Glow Valkyrie
Lat64 Saint Opto
DX Viking
Lat64 River Gold
Prodigy F2 Clear
Cheetah DX
Classic Roc R+
Champion Classic Aviar
Omega AP
Wizard SSS
DX Birdie
zeramant86
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby luma » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:36 pm

You don't HAVE TO, but it's definately the easier and more consinstent way for left curves. A lot of players for example don't have a forehand - me included. I can throw it 250' (backhand around 400') straight with fade at the end. It's also good for escape shots with no run up or shorter approaches. I have found my backhand roller with my super super flippy D Jackal to come in handy for 350' rightish holes. If I can keep it on the ground and the grass is cut I play a roller and will also stay under all the branches which keeps me pretty save from bogeying the hole. If I have to throw it high I'll just play a backhand turnover (like you do with your forehand when it's supposed to go left).I found that there aren't that many holes so that I really have to learn throwing a forehand 350'+ You just have to know how to handle all types of holes in a tournament.... ;)
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby zeramant86 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:42 pm

Yeah, I'm just playing with friends now, but we're all alil competitive, even though we suck. My problem being mainly forehand is most doglegs are geared towards rhbh throws, which are difficult for me. The course we play has some throws that are fairly clear paths for rhbh, but for me , I pull out the ape throw far left, circle everything, then fade back in to the right, on the non-doglegs. I guess it's all a matter of preference. I may try playing 2 discs next time, play one set regular and play disc 2 rhbh.

I could always go lefty forehand, haha, bet that'd be ugly. I may try it just to see next time I'm out.
My Bag
Blizzard Ape
Prodigy D3 400G
Champion Groove
Champion Destroyer
Champion Mamba
Champion Glow Valkyrie
Lat64 Saint Opto
DX Viking
Lat64 River Gold
Prodigy F2 Clear
Cheetah DX
Classic Roc R+
Champion Classic Aviar
Omega AP
Wizard SSS
DX Birdie
zeramant86
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby JTdisc » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:21 am

First of all, let's get a few terms straight so we're on the same page. Fade (or Low Speed Stability) is what happens to the disc at the end of the flight. Throwing RHFH, the discs will fade right at the end. They will never fade left. RHBH will always fade left, never right. Some discs fade more or less than others, but the directions are always the same.

Stability (or High Speed Stability) is what happens to the disc in the beginning and middle portions of it's flight. What you might want to try is an understable disc that, when thrown RHFH, will start turning left initially. An understable disc without a lot of fade can be thrown fairly hard with a slight anhyzer angle (like you talked about in your initial post) and it will hold that line with a gentle left curve and minimal fade back right at the end. The discs you were throwing were probably stable or overstable enough that they flexed out of the anhyzer at the end. A more understable disc will resist this more and hold that line longer.

It sounds like you have the right idea about angling the forehand, but could use a slightly understable disc. The Innova Leopard (fairway driver) or Super Stingray (mid) might be good places to start to work on these shots.

Also, keep working on either the RH backhand or a LHFH for those times when you need that late fade to go left.
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby itlnstln » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:59 pm

JTdisc wrote:First of all, let's get a few terms straight so we're on the same page. Fade (or Low Speed Stability) is what happens to the disc at the end of the flight. Throwing RHFH, the discs will fade right at the end. They will never fade left. RHBH will always fade left, never right. Some discs fade more or less than others, but the directions are always the same.

Stability (or High Speed Stability) is what happens to the disc in the beginning and middle portions of it's flight. What you might want to try is an understable disc that, when thrown RHFH, will start turning left initially. An understable disc without a lot of fade can be thrown fairly hard with a slight anhyzer angle (like you talked about in your initial post) and it will hold that line with a gentle left curve and minimal fade back right at the end. The discs you were throwing were probably stable or overstable enough that they flexed out of the anhyzer at the end. A more understable disc will resist this more and hold that line longer.

It sounds like you have the right idea about angling the forehand, but could use a slightly understable disc. The Innova Leopard (fairway driver) or Super Stingray (mid) might be good places to start to work on these shots.

Also, keep working on either the RH backhand or a LHFH for those times when you need that late fade to go left.


This. It's always easier to control/predict fade than turn. You're better off learning a backhand than trying to get a forehand to turn; it's simply more predictable. You can remain FH-dominant; however. Personally, I have a strong backhand and a serviceable forehand; most of my discs are at least somewhat overstable (even my Leopards aren't exactly understable) and have predictable flight-paths and, thus, easier to control.
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby JR » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:49 pm

Mark Ellis is right hand forehand dominant player and he said that it is the hardest shot to get a a disc to FH anny out to long distances. He is correct and learning backhand helps a lot. There are few that cannot throw farther with practice BH vs FH.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby Dan-O » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:51 pm

A forehand hammer throw (tomahawk, ud ... a couple different names) will finish to the left. Overhand throws are generally pretty straight, though, and the leftward finish won't be pronounced like a backhand throw.
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Re: Needing Some Advice

Postby zeramant86 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:02 pm

Figured I'd post an update. So just for kicks, I tried throwing lefty. It was a terrible idea, definitely not going to work for me. I threw two drives for the last couple rounds I've played. I threw one like I would play normally. The other I threw entirely RHBH. Hopefully in time, I can build a little better technique and distance this way.

I tried some test throws in a field throwing anny RHFH, I can throw it with my Roc, but I can't put much power or it bites on landing and rolls hard right. I have to throw soft or it does this.

I can tomahawk some throws, but my groove does an "S" and my Roc does a curves as it rolls then levels out and glides right. Unfortunately, most of the pads have low lying trees, so you can't throw up any hardly.
My Bag
Blizzard Ape
Prodigy D3 400G
Champion Groove
Champion Destroyer
Champion Mamba
Champion Glow Valkyrie
Lat64 Saint Opto
DX Viking
Lat64 River Gold
Prodigy F2 Clear
Cheetah DX
Classic Roc R+
Champion Classic Aviar
Omega AP
Wizard SSS
DX Birdie
zeramant86
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Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:19 am
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