Disc rim width and it's affect on distance

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Disc rim width and it's affect on distance

Postby shaggyvs » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:33 pm

I typically get the same distance whether I throw a Beast, a Wraith or a Destroyer. It's actually more comfortable for me to throw a disc with a 2.0 or 2.1cm rim. I have tried to throw a Katana or a Boss but the rim feels way too large. Is anybody else getting big distance just sticking with a speed 10 or 11 disc instead of reaching to the speed 12's and 13's? How much more distance should I expect to get from a Destroyer over a Wraith and are there any grip techniques that work better that would help me adjust to the larger rims? Thanks for any advice.
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Re: Disc rim width and it's affect on distance

Postby aerodriver » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:54 pm

First off, if you don't have the technique and timing to throw the higher speed discs the way you're supposed to, then you won't see any increases in distance just because they're "faster."

I myself have thrown Beasts as my main distance drivers for some time and they're good for me 300ft-375ft or so. It only makes sense to me to have the faster drivers if you're absolutely required to hit big distances in open areas. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to throw discs that are either uncomfortable or flying very differently from their intended path slower and at the same distance as lower-speed discs.

If you want to throw these discs anyway, I would recommend a three-finger power grip. Without the pinky, there's less chance of over-gripping the disc or keeping the disc too far into the palm where it won't come out.
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Re: Disc rim width and it's affect on distance

Postby shaggyvs » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:17 pm

Thanks for the reply and the advice on the three finger grip. Have you stuck with a Beast because you aren't getting much more distance from any of the faster discs? Or is it because you are more accurate with a Beast even though you can throw farther with the wider rimmed discs?
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Re: Disc rim width and it's affect on distance

Postby JHern » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:07 pm

The wide rim discs are also finnicky when it comes to fitting in your hand. The Champion Katana is the longest disc for me personally (first disc I could get over 400'), but I could only throw the Legacy Cannon (also max rim width) about 330'…the reason is that the Cannon has a larger rim depth and my hand simply doesn't fit well.
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Re: Disc rim width and it's affect on distance

Postby JR » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:39 pm

I have only a little more power than you do at 400' Beast normally topping out at 420'. Nuke the same except topping out at 443' hitting a wall airborne at the height of one and a half to two feet flat going fast with wind help s-curve. Grip it to rip is the name of the game so there is some finger srength involved. I have heard 500' and over throwers having micro slips (the disc leaves in the cirrect direction but does not rotate fully between the index finger and the thumb) and outdistancing me still thanks to a greater exit speed with less RPMs in relation to me. The sound that the index finger hitting the thumb makes for them is way louder for them than it is for me ever. Indicating they have more finger squeeze strength than i do. I might well be finger power limited despite having tried to work out with squeezers and lifting weight plates with two and three fingers. It is easy to overwork the tendons so beware because they may take a few years to heal properly needing at least 3 months of going easy early on.

Not having a arge hand and long fingers reduces the leverage i can put on the disc from the fingers so my position of the fingers and the way i create pressure on the rim with the index finger especially is compromized and only finger lengthening would help there grr. Not about to go stretching rack medieval on myself because i am not a catholic thus not a part of the inquisition. It does not seem proper to play their game :-)

HAving more leverage with thinner wings like the Beast means more gripping power and fewer slips to the left. But the real benefit of the Beast for me is that it is the least fading long driver that is not uncontrollably flippy at my power and has only so little hyzer need initially for a flat flip at full power that if i miscalculate the disc wil not land in a ruinous place for the second shot much of the time. Meaning it is ok in wind handling most of the time only suffering when there are bad winds or stiff headwinds.

Surges of different kinds are slower and less fading than Wraiths. Wraiths, Flows, Swords, Destros fade out early for my spin and speed losing out in controllability not winning in distance over the Beast. YMMV depending on the speed and spin and nose angle plus apex height. I am speed limited to put more height into the throws with more nose down. I can at times when my arm is functioning at its best to put more height than normal with more nose down with way too little consistency meaning most shots are too nose up, slow down and are short or too nose down and dive bomb early at great speeds leaving the few great shots about as long as lower speed maintaining thus better gliding shots practically the same distance wise so why i wouldn't take the higher make rate when the few feet of difference rarely change the score for the better? Big boy discs are for big boys and harsh left finishes. If you want to try out faster discs without that much more pwer requirement and a killer fade Crank and high outer edge domey VIP Kings are the straightest not to flippy faster than Beast drivers. I only have too Terns and both flip more than the Crank and also fade out more so they are more demanding in angles and still fade out much of the time but they are faster so while the average make rate is lower the absolute distance for the few optimal shots is a little better than for the Crank. Slow and steady wins the race unless you are in a distance competition and then it is better to throw a light Nuke.

The thumb is the only finger on top of the disc and resists the disc from popping up from in between the lower fingers and slippping out early killing speed and spin. Thus the thumb grip power determines the potential for grip strength and distance. avery Jenkins aligns his thumb at times only though so that the corner of the finger print and the more toward the root part of the outermost section of the thumb touches the flight plate. Not the whole thumb. Smaller area more pressure adn the thumb digs into the flight plate more creating a ridge that needs to be climbed over for the thumb to slip away from the disc adding effective grip power. The base of the thumb needs to push down hard too so in the words of Feldberg north south pressure and east west pressure.

The thumb needs to push down and the index finger push against the rim and not sure but guess that also upward against the thumb too. I cannot verify that due to an injury though. I get the same distance either way if i push the index up or not because i get limited by subconscious loosening of the muscles because pushing up strains the injured part of my arm. I might never get over it. No matter how i train and how i tiem the pinch. Pushing down with the thumb is even harder. Again leverage is a good thing and it would help to have a longer finger but failing that thinner discs help and that is one benefit of the Beast over many faster discs. So there are things that can improve the grip strength and they are the quickest improvement. Note that a tight clenched muscles move slower than loose ones so the disc should not be death gripped early in the throw but only late when the disc has started to pivot out of the palm. Since it takes time for the command to move from the brain to the fingers the command needs to leave ahead of time. When depends on your speed of throw and nervous system speed so it needs to be explored because it varies from person to person. I have head many say that they try to pinch (send the command) when the elbow starts to straighten.
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Re: Disc rim width and it's affect on distance

Postby aerodriver » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:24 pm

shaggyvs wrote:Thanks for the reply and the advice on the three finger grip. Have you stuck with a Beast because you aren't getting much more distance from any of the faster discs? Or is it because you are more accurate with a Beast even though you can throw farther with the wider rimmed discs?


I have stuck with the Beast because I stopped seeing distance improvements with any disc any higher in speed. I've tried Bolts, Bosses, Nukes, Wraiths, Destroyers, and Forces to no added distance given my current strength and technique. Because of this they are more accurate than me throwing speeds that are not as efficient as the Beast.

I have a Sword and an Escape to test out over time and I'm expecting that I will only see gains in control/accuracy, simply because of their higher weights at 173g rather than my Beasts that are 164-169g, although I do have a max weight "headwind" Beast that will be my main target for a comparison.
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