Need a Tunnel Mid

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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby PMantle » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:13 am

discmonkey42 wrote:
BentElbow11 wrote:
PMantle wrote:I don't find an Axis to be faster than a Buzzz, but maybe I'm not throwing it right. :dunno:

Really thinking of selling all my MVP stuff. Just really never end up using any of them. Shock has the best chance of staying though.


MVP is an aquired taste, IMO. I think the reason many describe their mids as "faster" is because you need to throw them harder to get optimal flight out of them. Gotta keep them spinning. That gyro tech thing again :)


While I can throw a buzz, truth, slightly worn roc, axis, and several others straight all the way to the end of their flights (sorry guys, it's the indian not the arrow),
That's fine and all, but it does not help any of us, including every disc golfer I've ever seen, who can't make those do that. That's kinda why people ask these questions.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby Stringbean » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:09 am

The Tangent is a great disc. I just wish it wasn't so damn slippery when cold/wet. Keeping a Buzz/Truth/Axis/etc straight is all about putting a shit load of spin on the disc and holding back on power. I can do that but can't get the same distance as I would from throwing a Super Stingray/QMS/Tangent at normal power.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:22 am

One of the things about MVP discs is the forward penetrating fade...it's not a joke. Any fade of the Axis for example, is minimized by this. The Tangent has no fade, it's like a faster neutral putter. It's the best of the bunch of mids that fly straight and land flat, IMO.

stringbean: QMS definitely, and the Super Stingray is a really nice disc, a straight flyer.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby PMantle » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:40 am

Never thrown a Tangent. Need more time with Axis, but with my shoulder issues, I'd rather use my limited throws on the course instead of the field.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby Stringbean » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:53 am

Don't expect to get a straight flight out of the new QMS though. The Rancho mold has a much stronger fade than the OOP Ontario mold.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:14 pm

Stringbean wrote:Don't expect to get a straight flight out of the new QMS though. The Rancho mold has a much stronger fade than the OOP Ontario mold.


Yes, I've heard that. These are the sparkle QMS with the new stamp, right? Too bad...
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:17 pm

PMantle wrote:Never thrown a Tangent. Need more time with Axis, but with my shoulder issues, I'd rather use my limited throws on the course instead of the field.


I don't think you'd be disappointed with the Tangent. It flies like the Anode, except with less floatiness, more speed, and increased range.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby discmonkey42 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:02 pm

PMantle wrote:
discmonkey42 wrote:
BentElbow11 wrote:
PMantle wrote:I don't find an Axis to be faster than a Buzzz, but maybe I'm not throwing it right. :dunno:

Really thinking of selling all my MVP stuff. Just really never end up using any of them. Shock has the best chance of staying though.


MVP is an aquired taste, IMO. I think the reason many describe their mids as "faster" is because you need to throw them harder to get optimal flight out of them. Gotta keep them spinning. That gyro tech thing again :)


While I can throw a buzz, truth, slightly worn roc, axis, and several others straight all the way to the end of their flights (sorry guys, it's the indian not the arrow),
That's fine and all, but it does not help any of us, including every disc golfer I've ever seen, who can't make those do that. That's kinda why people ask these questions.


And Mark answered this question extremely well. If your choice is to deny something is possible because you can't do it and your friends can't do it, then that's an issue with you and the people you play with. It's not an issue with the disc. Your questions should be focused on how to gain a skill, not what disc to buy to hide your lack of that skill. Throwing a stable mid straight with no fade is a fundamental and necessary skill in disc golf. It will translate into lower scores and an immensely increased enjoyment of the game. Practice more, argue less.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby PMantle » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:27 pm

discmonkey42 wrote: argue less.

Great advice. You should take it. You really have missed the whole point of this thread.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:32 pm

PMantle wrote:
discmonkey42 wrote: argue less.

Great advice. You should take it. You really have missed the whole point of this thread.


You don't by chance mean that, good gosh, there are actually better mids than the Buzzz for dead straight tunnel shots, do you? :roll:
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby PMantle » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:37 pm

From the players in this thread alone(none mine):

Any of the Buzzz/Axis/Roc (seasoned)

Flex something stable (Buzzz, Truth, Axis, seasoned Roc, etc.)

A Buzzz will fade. You can minimize the fade by subtle release angle adjustment, but it's designed to have some fade.

Yes, they will fade a little as they slow down. A Buzzz SS would be the better choice for a tunnel shot with a straight finish.

My most beat up Buzzz will fly dead nuts straight (no fade at all) at 150'.

where a Buzz would normally fade if Z
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:05 pm

discmonkey42 wrote:
PMantle wrote:
discmonkey42 wrote:
BentElbow11 wrote:
PMantle wrote:I don't find an Axis to be faster than a Buzzz, but maybe I'm not throwing it right. :dunno:

Really thinking of selling all my MVP stuff. Just really never end up using any of them. Shock has the best chance of staying though.


MVP is an aquired taste, IMO. I think the reason many describe their mids as "faster" is because you need to throw them harder to get optimal flight out of them. Gotta keep them spinning. That gyro tech thing again :)


While I can throw a buzz, truth, slightly worn roc, axis, and several others straight all the way to the end of their flights (sorry guys, it's the indian not the arrow),
That's fine and all, but it does not help any of us, including every disc golfer I've ever seen, who can't make those do that. That's kinda why people ask these questions.


And Mark answered this question extremely well. If your choice is to deny something is possible because you can't do it and your friends can't do it, then that's an issue with you and the people you play with. It's not an issue with the disc. Your questions should be focused on how to gain a skill, not what disc to buy to hide your lack of that skill. Throwing a stable mid straight with no fade is a fundamental and necessary skill in disc golf. It will translate into lower scores and an immensely increased enjoyment of the game. Practice more, argue less.


There's another method that you choose to ignore...such as using the approprite disc that's ideal for the shot needed, and letting the disc do the work for you, vs trying to beat in or finesse another disc that's not as well suited for that role(i.e. tunnel shot). As the Buzzz slows down it fades, and despite one's definition of "straight", the fade can't be entirely eliminated. Hence mids such as the Tangent, Aurora MS, Mako/Mako3, Fuse, Buzzz SS, etc. If it's windy, then the Buzzz may outperform those others in that role, but that's another animal entirely. This is hardly indicative of a lack of skill, but rather sound strategy.

I have owned and thrown many Buzzz's in different plastics and stages of wear, and can finesse them to do what I want, but why would I feel the need if there are (and there are!) other mids that can perform a dead straight tunnel shot better? That's why there are choices, instead of this idea of the Buzzz being a 'one disc fits all' midrange. And what's wrong with using a Buzzz SS if you want no fade?
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby Stringbean » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:09 pm

BentElbow11 wrote:
Stringbean wrote:Don't expect to get a straight flight out of the new QMS though. The Rancho mold has a much stronger fade than the OOP Ontario mold.


Yes, I've heard that. These are the sparkle QMS with the new stamp, right? Too bad...


Yep, it's not a bad disc, just not the same. Perhaps it will beat into what the old one was but its going to take awhile.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:10 pm

PMantle wrote:From the players in this thread alone(none mine):

Any of the Buzzz/Axis/Roc (seasoned)

Flex something stable (Buzzz, Truth, Axis, seasoned Roc, etc.)

A Buzzz will fade. You can minimize the fade by subtle release angle adjustment, but it's designed to have some fade.

Yes, they will fade a little as they slow down. A Buzzz SS would be the better choice for a tunnel shot with a straight finish.

My most beat up Buzzz will fly dead nuts straight (no fade at all) at 150'.

where a Buzz would normally fade if Z


I can't believe that the Buzzz has such misguided prominence in this 'Need a Tunnel Mid" thread. It would be well down my list. 10 years ago, right at the top...but this is now, not then.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby PMantle » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:18 pm

I really do want a Buzzz SS. May be too similar to my base plastic Fugitive though.
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