I could use some help...

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I could use some help...

Postby luma » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:25 am

Hi,

I've started this game about 2 months ago and have only practised some basics (such as having an X-step or pull the disc instead of that curling motion I used to do as a child). During the throw I just try to accelerate into the throw and have a nice follow-through just like I do in ball golf.

Now, as I've read a lot about techniques and all of that stuff, I think that i drop down a little when I start the pull and I don't know, but maybe my stance during the throw is a little wide. One thing I definately have a problem is is my throw height. I throw discs as high as 30' usually, so I think I have a problem with throwing it nose down but I really don't know how to do that.... Another thing I realised watching pros on youtube is their left leg as it straightens during the throw...why do I not have this?

Anyway, I hope I am on the right track with my guessings and I would appreciate every comment about my throw and what I can do better - concerning Power (Throwing around 350' with the casual Fluke 380') and also Accuracy.

Thanks Everyone! :wink:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz9nKIeG3tA
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Re: I could use some help...

Postby seabas22 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:41 pm

Nice high speed footage. Your elbow is not quite getting forward of the shoulder. At 1:04 it really shows you lifting the rear toes up and pushing your weight forward way early and from the heel...you want to hold your weight back(preferably balanced on your rear toes/instep of the foot) until your front foot has braced. Then transfer your weight forward. You may notice many top throwers don't let the rear heel touch the ground. I'd also suggest working your body around disc, keeping the disc still in place going into the backswing pivoting your body back. You are bringing the disc back instead. Also you want to glide your front forward forward and transfer your weight more from behind you, so your balance is going to change in order to do that.

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Re: I could use some help...

Postby luma » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:33 am

Ok, thanks. That is going to be a lot of work...but I'll try to practce it today right away. Thanks for your help!
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Re: I could use some help...

Postby JR » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:57 am

Hi your arm rises late in the throw and you don't push the wrist down hard once the elbow starts to straighten out. That creates the nose up attitude to the disc. Slowing down the step makes pushing with the left leg forward and backward with the right leg way way easier. You kicked the right leg toward the target with the final step by lifting the leg at the hip joint which made the final step too long. You need to move the elbow forward at least 8" before straightening it. The down to up video showed the disc slipping out around 3 o'clock which is too early so you need to pinch like hell with the thumb and the index finger at least possibly the middle finger too. Possibly earlier too.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: I could use some help...

Postby luma » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:24 pm

So if I get that right, that down to up view should be a straight line ideally and not have that little curve of the disc in it?
That thing with the elbow...is there something to practice it (not throwing discs but to get the feel?) - that is pretty much the most difficult thing for me to do because its somehow an unnatural movement for me.
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Re: I could use some help...

Postby JR » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:18 pm

Right pec drill is what you wanna search for. I'm not sure what you mean with your question about the down to up video. Blake drew a diagram of no snap vs half hitting vs full hitting a little time ago. Ideally the disc should rip out of the hand when the thumb separates from the disc at over 4 o'clock up to almost 6 o'clock with the front of the disc being at 12 o'clock and the rear of the tee at 6 o'clock. That difference is large in distance and gripping strength requirement. Additionally often times the disc travels closer to the target with the arm being straighter with a higher number on the clock. The disc should pivot between the tips of the index finger after the disc leaves the base of the thumb.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: I could use some help...

Postby luma » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:40 am

Ok thanks :-) Will play a few hours today and try to work on that.
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Re: I could use some help...

Postby masterbeato » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:57 am

also, when practicing everything, it is important to do it from a standstill until you cant go anywhere else with your timing, then start slow adding a step here and there.
My PDGA - Dan Beto

Frank Delicious wrote:and now we know the secret to your power. You are more machine than bear!
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Re: I could use some help...

Postby luma » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:31 am

Ok...two more questions - as I've tried this for a fews days now, I think 1 step backwards 2 steps forward is what I have to think about right? Or is this something that should work straight away...?
And the other question..is there any feel that I can try and add while practicing, I'm not that "technical" guy, I prefer having a feel for things that I do (at least that's what works in ball golf)..With that right pec drill, when I try and throw like this I try and pull the disc while holding back my upper body until the disc has reached my right pec, from there on I really try and give it a good snap...but the disc usually goes up like gas prizes....
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Re: I could use some help...

Postby JR » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:47 pm

Stand still where you start your throw and reach back as far as you plant to use in that throw and watch how high the disc is relative to the pull line you plant to use. For a non climbing shot the disc needs to maintain constant altitude and the higher you pull the harder it is to raise the arm even more so perhaps starting at shoulder height would help. So for the feel thing. Do a mock arm movement from the reach back to the rip point and focus on how it feels to keep the arm at the same height while watching the disc to make sure that it maintains height and then repeat that same feeling in the actual throw.

Another feel thing is the pressure of the rim against the index finger after the elbow has started accelerating. But first you need to know how it feels. So do you? If you do that is the second thing to feel and try to feel once you cure the high throws. Which can have lots of other causes such as the wrist rising and the disc being oriented nose up in the grip or being weight back. You know how it feels to be upright so make sure you are when the disc leaves so that is feeling number 3.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: I could use some help...(one year later)

Postby luma » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:39 am

As winter comes I'm getting kind of bored...I am willing to practice a lot during the winter, especially some Indoor drills or some changes to my form that I don't have to do outside with throwing discs. I will have the chance to be in a gym a couple of times this winter and throw my vibram softies against the wall, but that's gonna be all the throwing motions 120'+ that I will be able to do.

Anything recommended that I can practice? I know I take the disc back pretty high, don't know if that's an issue or not...

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Re: I could use some help...

Postby JR » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:00 am

I would try to keep the disc at aconstant height for lower line drives. Not sure if the arm swoop came from slipping on the ground though. You can reach back farther for more distance by turning the head and the shoulders farther away from the target. Have you tried to poition the thumb in other directions in the follow through? Avery jenkins points his thumb horizontal to the ground and i have had better results with pointing the thumb down ymmv. Naturally it is harder to ram the plant step in place and stop in on the snow and it is likely to result more in sliding forward than allowing more twisting of the hips and shoulders to the right. The way you threw does not maximize snap or power production but having so little moving parts is ok for FW drives and placement. For more more snap and power try a stand still with almost zero power until the right pec position then moderately accelerating and the whip the wrist to the right (after a full warm up and stretching well preferably in a warm indoor place) as fast as you can and immediately after that stopping the wrist to maximize the speed transfer to the disc. Actually it would best to start with only about 25 cm movement of the arm to show you the crazy distance you can get from such a small movement when you whip the wrist so late and accelerate fully. Sidearm it can lead to 60 meters easily with just that little flick of the hand that pivots the disc really well out of the palm. And that is for me with very little FH maximum distance. BH snap is weaker but it can be substantial. Your wrist is fairly straight al lthe way. Check out how much movement range Paul McBeth has. Feldy and Avery recommend about a two centimeter wrist snap length. Timing and strength leading to speed dictate what is best for you right now. I would imagine that the stronger you are the tighter you keep the wrist for a shorter movement at a higher speed and spin increase. Only if i could add more distance to the throws at the same rate the arm swing increases from that 25 cm arm stroke :-)

With the snow making you slip your foot pivot happened early and the disc was pulled to the right of the initial line as a result. Which is why it is about futile to practice form in slippery conditions.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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