The Myth of Disc Pivot

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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby soupdeluxe » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:42 am

Hey all
Love this thread and reread it for hidden nuggets on a regular basis. Question to you all is please explain what Blake is talking about here. your rip finger should not feel any "pull" by the disc. the rip finger should feel like it's "pushing" the disc. in those cases, your pivot has occurred correctly.
The part I cannot wrap my head around is the push. does this mean you are pushing the disc into your palm with the tip of your index finger? It seems to me your finger in the curled position is in no position to push? Any clarification would be great. Thanks
SD
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby DiscJay » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:59 am

soupdeluxe wrote:Hey all
Love this thread and reread it for hidden nuggets on a regular basis. Question to you all is please explain what Blake is talking about here. your rip finger should not feel any "pull" by the disc. the rip finger should feel like it's "pushing" the disc. in those cases, your pivot has occurred correctly.
The part I cannot wrap my head around is the push. does this mean you are pushing the disc into your palm with the tip of your index finger? It seems to me your finger in the curled position is in no position to push? Any clarification would be great. Thanks
SD


I am similarly confused by this concept. I remember Blake saying something to the effect of at the rip the last thing you should feel is your fingers pulling the disc toward your palm, not the disc pulling out of your fingers, or something like that. I think I have had that feeling(fingers pulling the disc back into my palm)on a few throws but not sure, haha.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby Stringbean » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:02 am

That is a great question. I understand what he means by the rip finger not feeling any "pull" from the disc (if you feel pull from the disc, then the disc is slipping out) . I think the push is not only the index finger but rather the pinch point between the index and thumb. In another thread, Blake discusses the importance of forward thumb pressure. My guess is that as the hand/wrist opens and as the disc pivots, the forward thumb pressure at the pinch point creates the push feeling that he is talking about. Sheeeshhh, sometimes I feel like I am trying to interpret the bible.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby DiscJay » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:46 am

So I played a couple rounds this weekend working only on getting the disc into the power pocket and I am happy to report that I am getting the same or more distance with significantly less effort. I have fixed the issue I was having with the disc only coming out hyzer and mostly fixed the issue I was having with the disc coming out to the right of my intended line. Now to figure out how to get more distance. I have to say my accuracy is up too. Thanks for all the help. You guys are awesome.

P.S. What I meant by working only on getting the disc into the power pocket is that on my throws I was concentrating on getting the disc as far into the power pocket as I could and then I would just kind of let the momentum of the throw work to eject the disc. It is amazing how fast the disc comes out with so much less effort.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby JR » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:32 pm

Those are the results of many so it sounds good. Don't worry the distance will come with practice. Timing is mostly the issue for the majority for getting more D.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby DiscJay » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:43 am

Yeah, I think I need to work on the timing of clamping down on the grip too, possibly grip strength itself. I definitely have worked out the issue of releasing to the right and I just have to work on dialing in the accuracy.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby DiscJay » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:22 pm

So I was thinking about my recent breakthrough and I realized that the feel of the throw is much different than my "old style." I am a right handed thrower and when I am bringing the disc into the "power pocket" these days it feels like I am bring it "around" in a counterclockwise arc into the pocket slowly and then without even thinking about it there is a reversal to a clockwise arc out of the pocket that is so much faster than my old throw. I don't know if there is actually a counterclockwise arc happening into the pocket, but that is how it feels. It all started when I was trying to imitate Beto's rail, as Blake called it, and pulling outside-in as Beto himself described it. I found that the best way for me to get deeper into the pocket was a rounding feeling. Hope this makes sense. I figure it might help others who are trying to recreate Beto's rail. Let me know what y'all think.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby PMantle » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:31 pm

soupdeluxe wrote: Question to you all is please explain what Blake is talking about here.

I have not understood one thing he has said about the minutia of the throw. Looks completely made up to me. IMHO. YMMV.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby DiscJay » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:30 pm

PMantle wrote:
soupdeluxe wrote: Question to you all is please explain what Blake is talking about here.

I have not understood one thing he has said about the minutia of the throw. Looks completely made up to me. IMHO. YMMV.


You mean Blake's stuff? It is making more and more sense to me as I make more breakthroughs in my throw.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby Stringbean » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:51 pm

I agree, the rail method definitely works. You just have to go slow around the rail and when you get the heavy feeling, you grip down and pull the edge around. Hand at 12:00 at the critical point and 4:00 at release. My problem is that my fundamentals are terrible so I can't get any consistency and haven't figured out how to add power to the throw using my core.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby PMantle » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:55 pm

DiscJay wrote:
PMantle wrote:
soupdeluxe wrote: Question to you all is please explain what Blake is talking about here.

I have not understood one thing he has said about the minutia of the throw. Looks completely made up to me. IMHO. YMMV.


You mean Blake's stuff? It is making more and more sense to me as I make more breakthroughs in my throw.

Yes, and I'm sure it's just me.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby Star Shark » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:28 pm

DiscJay wrote:So I was thinking about my recent breakthrough and I realized that the feel of the throw is much different than my "old style." I am a right handed thrower and when I am bringing the disc into the "power pocket" these days it feels like I am bring it "around" in a counterclockwise arc into the pocket slowly and then without even thinking about it there is a reversal to a clockwise arc out of the pocket that is so much faster than my old throw. I don't know if there is actually a counterclockwise arc happening into the pocket, but that is how it feels. It all started when I was trying to imitate Beto's rail, as Blake called it, and pulling outside-in as Beto himself described it. I found that the best way for me to get deeper into the pocket was a rounding feeling. Hope this makes sense. I figure it might help others who are trying to recreate Beto's rail. Let me know what y'all think.


The reversal you're feeling is the palm ejection. You come in clockwise, the disc comes shooting out of your hand the opposite direction your hand is travelling and then starts to pivot around the pinch between thumb and index finger. That's the pulling you're feeling.
Last edited by Star Shark on Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby JR » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:46 pm

That can flatten a spot in the index finger. It can be that hard. But squeezing the disc hard can do it too. Simultanous execution... At times a flat spot on the finger can last a minute for me.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby DiscJay » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:11 am

So how far into the power pocket is too far? What is the sweet spot before you start getting into diminishing returns or negatively affecting the throw? I am trying to figure out where that point is. I suppose it will be different for different people depending on arm length and stuff. What are everyone's thoughts?
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Re: The Myth of Disc Pivot

Postby JR » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:13 pm

DiscJay wrote:So how far into the power pocket is too far? What is the sweet spot before you start getting into diminishing returns or negatively affecting the throw? I am trying to figure out where that point is. I suppose it will be different for different people depending on arm length and stuff. What are everyone's thoughts?


I have come across one clear case of too far and that is straightening the upper arm (shoulder socket to the elbow) at the target as far it will go without straightening the elbow bend -OUCH major chacne of an injury!!!! I as an 50+ barely thrower start the arm acceleration way later than local 70+ MPH thrower. The faster you throw and the more hip twist (mine is negligible now thanks to lower back injury) you have the earlier and faster the arm acceleration needs to happen and harder earlier acceleration rate of the acceleration too for power throwers. So it is very likely that things change as you progress and switch forms. They are so different worlds that i do not wonder at all about athletes arguing me a couch potate almost about when and how hard the arm should pull. It seems inconcievable to power throwers that somebody could pull so late. Well it is inconcievable how bad being injured can mess up your form too so it is understandable. 360s are different to Voigt style technique to what i describe for accuracy drives in my signature. YMMV will definitely vary on any given day between those forms alone because they all have different initial speeds and potentials of body weight shift so things will happen at a different pace. Timings have to be adjusted to work optimally for each technique. Thus the flight distances are great gauges for proper timing. Another great measure is how hard you snap. As in how hard it squashes your fingers and how straight the disc flies.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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