Uncle B's Bag

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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:57 pm

BentElbow11 wrote:
UncleBrother2001 wrote:Just updated the Bag. And With the Help of dgdave I am now the owner of a Icon Patriot. Just got to wait for it to get here. When he said it flew like a CE Leopard I was sold. :lol:

Hey JR,since you enjoy Beasts a lot have you by chance tried a Blizzard Beast,if so what is your thoughts on them?


It's the Pinnacle version that resembles old CE plastic though, kind of a milky champ plastic. I've seen a few, and the white and salmon colored ones are the most CE-like. Icon is like Star.

I think JR's busy snoring in Finland about now. Unless he's a real early riser.


I really wanted the Pinnacle Version,but really wanted to see how the Icon was like. I have my Rival in Pinnacle and it feels great and flies great,so I wanted to test out the Icon in the Patriot.

Before it's said and done I'll probably have both in both plastics though. It's been a bit windy as of late so my PD's and my Rival(mainly the Rival) has seen a lot of action. The Rival has flown great.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:03 pm

I've heard good things about the Patriot and Rival, and would really like to be throwing them. But my bag is set and I can't justify adding either one right now. I'm glad you like the Rival. I think Legacy makes real good discs, and in nice plastics. I have an Icon Gauge which just blows away the Mako 3 when it comes to absolute straight flight, glide, and distance.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby JR » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:15 am

I have used the snake strike putt for most of my career adding the small lift at longer ranges for a hybrid snake strike push putt at longer ranges a couple of years back. The snake strike putt needs that quick late acceleration and is not hurt by the wrist flick as long as the elbow straightening acceleration is fast enough to not let the elbow get straight. Which would flip the wrist right of rest position missing to the right each time. You guys actually described the essentials of the snake strike putt very well (save for bents with the exclusion of the elbow it is more true in a push putt than a spin where elbow bending is producing a lot of power). That is how i do it. Except much of the time my wrist action is not conscious or large unless i am at a longer range and even then often times i get enough power and late acceleration elsewhere. So when i really flick the wrist hard is normally only when thre are branches limiting the available lines and height and i need to maximize the spin -that is straightness of the flight- with a flat shot or maintaining of anny angle going around obstacles to get the disc moving far enough right when flexing out would mean a miss to the left.

Steer clear of Blizzard and DX Beasts please they suck. This from a Beast lover who has used Beasts as main drivers for better part of a decade in each version and each plstic except the new GStar. DX breaks in to roller very very quickly like a DX Valk. No surprise because the Beast is a modified Valk and it will probably push the Valks out. PDs for the most part are so different to the Beasts that they do not overlap and have different roles. Flatter worn P PDs or beat PDs can get closer to the Beasts but the fade is still harder with the PDs and the Beast is faster and longer for me anyway. I could not get 11-13 year old kids to take my Bliz Beast for free after trying out other discs. Because the bliz flipped too much and was hard to control even at their power. Say 150'-180' for many of them. They noticed immediately how control trumps D. Pro Beasts can last a very long time. I used one without trouble for three years with no trouble even using it on a rocky course for one drive. Until it hit a glass shard on that hole grr. Damn campers and boozers.

As long as you don't get understable Patriots they should be good. From how others describe the normal Patriots they sound like more HSS thus easier and more reliable Leps. If you don't get a flatter Star with high PLH that is not staying on the line in tunnels though but will not flip ither without winds. Judging by the success of others it should be more normal with Patriots to get non flippy discs.

Low ceilings at long ranges require a lot of power, low aiming and a fast or well gliding disc. The River actually does well if you have height control even with low ceiling shots but it does get more difficult to keep low than most discs due to the super glide. Throwing it lower makes it also flippier so it is very much a skill shot not available to more experienced players to get the River out far on a low ceiling. But is what you need to do if it is a tunnel and fading is out of the question because less gliding faster discs are easier to throw low but not to keep straight. The advantage that the River has on a low ceiling sot forced low is that unlike normal discs it keeps the limited height way better while not fading out early. Throw a Beast low and the power requirement goes up on holes where fading is allowed and it goes way way up where fade is not allowed. If you do not want to risk skips. Which is a bad idea on many tunnel holes with tree roots threatening deflections any which way. The lower speed of the River and the Leo and Patriot for that matter means that is a much better choice for delaying the onset of the fade for moderate to low power players vs Beasts and faster. Even for 400'+ players tunnel shots are not about ripping hard but maximizing accuracy and consistency. Both go up with reducing the power. The only trouble is then how long is the tunnel for the River. Do you have the power to get it to the pin with controllable power? Do you need to attack the hole at all? Often times it is better to take par 3 in a tunnel that is too long for controllable power. So if they choice is a fast disc pounded hard or River pushed at beyond controllable power the best option often is taking neither approach. It depends on the danger of course but tunnels tend to have thick penalizing rough.

A more HSS disc than the River in low shots and tunnels gives a tremendous confidencee boost against flipping over so i totally get and have gone the way of other discs in tunnels that are too long for me with the River. Even though i had trained low hyzer flips with them.

By the way low ceiling shots are way easier if you get the release lower which is so much easier to do by bending the legs a lot at the knees and dropping the arm pull line to about hip level. I have thrown lower than that too.

Rivals are way more HSS than Rivers and too LSS for tunnels for me.

Faster and longer discs than the Beast tend to be way harder to throw and more unforgiving so it is a matter of when to use them and if the course has benefits from using warp speeders and the skill of throwing the fast stuff. It is no shame to toss the Beast vs warp speeders most of the time. Consistency wins in the long run and most of the times in the span of a single round too. I have made it a point to field throw a lot to get comfy with warp speeders too and it is a different skill for sure and needs to be maintained. I also make a point to carry hot rod ultra long discs for those rare occasons where i can or need or want to train for pushing the limits. Even with trees on the fairway. For average scores it may not be a good idea to use warp speeders when going for non open holes if you have not taken the time to get comfy with them. It is partially a flexibility and hand/finger strength matter too to get the warp speeders under control. After you've mastered throwing them nose down. So they are a couple of levels harder discs to throw than the Beasts. Even when we are not talking of flippy warp speeders that are even harder than straighter and overstable warp speeders.

It is rare that a 10-15' distance difference can make the difference in strokes but it happens occasionally so even though you might use the Beast 95+ % of the time you can still get better results at times with warp speeders which is a good reason to carry them. You never know when you need them. Trouble shots are the other time when every bit of extra distance can help.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:47 am

This I can agree with. Regarding the elbow, hinging for spin putts yes, but you don't want it moving around, left/right. Wrist action is the dominant factor with the spin putt, arm with the push putt.

Yeah, I think almost ANY disc golfer would be fine with nothing faster than speed 10 drivers with 2.0ish rims. The rest is overkill unless on super long holes or in the case of Pro level players who have so much power they may overpower slower drivers, regardless of stability.

To 'UncleBrother's' point, there's no reason to throw a curvy Tern that's hardly known for consistent flight if your Beast or PD can get within 10-15 ft of it every time. You'll get much straighter and more accurate drives hyzer-flipping a Beast or ripping a PD hard and flat...not to mention ease of throwing them. But maybe keep the Tern in the bag for the occasional big drives, or just for fun.

I agree with JR about Blizzard discs. The lighter ones are a joke, and the ones approaching 160g, well, you might as well just get the regular champ version.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:51 pm

Thanks guys. Really appreciate the info.

I'll still do some field throwing with my Pro Destroyers and Terns. I know I'm over 30 now,but maybe I can get to the point where there is a significant difference in distance between those and my Beast's and PD's. You never know I might end up getting better with my distance throws as I get older. :lol:
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:56 pm

Would you guys consider average distances with the Beasts around 380ft to 390ft pretty decent? When I hear about people getting these over 400ft I feel I'm doing something wrong.

Instead of me trying to rip these things a ton,I'm just being more finesse with them and just letting them rip out of the hand. If I try throwing them too hard I get this pain right above my My rotator cuff below my shoulder. When I'm smooth there is no pain. I guess it's just me getting older :lol:
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:08 pm

UncleBrother2001 wrote:Would you guys consider average distances with the Beasts around 380ft to 390ft pretty decent? When I hear about people getting these over 400ft I feel I'm doing something wrong.

Instead of me trying to rip these things a ton,I'm just being more finesse with them and just letting them rip out of the hand. If I try throwing them too hard I get this pain right above my My rotator cuff below my shoulder. When I'm smooth there is no pain. I guess it's just me getting older :lol:


Yes, pretty decent. More stable champs should be good out to about 450 in calm conditions. How often do you need 450 ft drives though? I hope you're not overthrowing the Beast trying to get it to go as far as a Tern can. If your Tern was getting to 400 and your Beast is getting to 380, not a problem, IMO.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:38 pm

BentElbow11 wrote:
UncleBrother2001 wrote:Would you guys consider average distances with the Beasts around 380ft to 390ft pretty decent? When I hear about people getting these over 400ft I feel I'm doing something wrong.

Instead of me trying to rip these things a ton,I'm just being more finesse with them and just letting them rip out of the hand. If I try throwing them too hard I get this pain right above my My rotator cuff below my shoulder. When I'm smooth there is no pain. I guess it's just me getting older :lol:


Yes, pretty decent. More stable champs should be good out to about 450 in calm conditions. How often do you need 450 ft drives though? I hope you're not overthrowing the Beast trying to get it to go as far as a Tern can. If your Tern was getting to 400 and your Beast is getting to 380, not a problem, IMO.


To be honest I would like to be able to throw that far,but I think if I would have reached that distance I would have by now.

I guess I'm guilty in that aspect. I was trying to overthrow them,but then I was getting some OAT in the mix. When I went back to being Finesse,which I should do all the time now, I was throwing them much more Consistent and between 380ft to 390ft.

I shouldn't get so frustrated like I do just because of that. I'm having to relearn things and deal with a disc not breaking that 400ft mark everynow and then.I'm for sure going back to being Finesse. I worked with that quite a bit yesterday. Doing standstills and just a 3 step X-Step and made sure I was smooth the whole way. Once I got the feel back I was maybe 5ft off of me trying to rip it as hard as I could throws.

Those high speed discs spoiled me :lol:
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:53 pm

Oh yeah and thanks JR for the insight on the Beasts. I'll be sure to avoid the Blizzard and DX plastics.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:49 pm

UncleBrother2001 wrote:
BentElbow11 wrote:
UncleBrother2001 wrote:Would you guys consider average distances with the Beasts around 380ft to 390ft pretty decent? When I hear about people getting these over 400ft I feel I'm doing something wrong.

Instead of me trying to rip these things a ton,I'm just being more finesse with them and just letting them rip out of the hand. If I try throwing them too hard I get this pain right above my My rotator cuff below my shoulder. When I'm smooth there is no pain. I guess it's just me getting older :lol:


Yes, pretty decent. More stable champs should be good out to about 450 in calm conditions. How often do you need 450 ft drives though? I hope you're not overthrowing the Beast trying to get it to go as far as a Tern can. If your Tern was getting to 400 and your Beast is getting to 380, not a problem, IMO.


To be honest I would like to be able to throw that far,but I think if I would have reached that distance I would have by now.

I guess I'm guilty in that aspect. I was trying to overthrow them,but then I was getting some OAT in the mix. When I went back to being Finesse,which I should do all the time now, I was throwing them much more Consistent and between 380ft to 390ft.

I shouldn't get so frustrated like I do just because of that. I'm having to relearn things and deal with a disc not breaking that 400ft mark everynow and then.I'm for sure going back to being Finesse. I worked with that quite a bit yesterday. Doing standstills and just a 3 step X-Step and made sure I was smooth the whole way. Once I got the feel back I was maybe 5ft off of me trying to rip it as hard as I could throws.

Those high speed discs spoiled me :lol:


450 ft, and even 400 are just numbers, nothing magical about it. There aren't many holes where you'll need that. It can be fun to air things out at a field and try for bigger distance drives, but on a course, I don't even think about exactly how far each drive is going with which disc.

Oh, I think you'll be happier in the long run with drivers like the Beast(situational) and PD. The Beast, to me, is a longer and slightly more stable Valkyrie. What's not to like? If your PD isn't getting quite the distance you want, step up to an Orc, or even a Wraith...Orc 2.0cm, Wraith 2.1cm. And then maybe use the PD as more of a control driver.

FYI, I typically max out at 380-400 ft, with the occasional big bomb(for me) to about 430. Drivers I've gotten to 430+ ft are the GL Havoc, GL Bolt/King, GL Flow, R-Pro Boss, and now the Lucid Renegade, which I like the best for sweet hyzer-flip drives. For stable-OS duty, it's a champ Orc with moderate dome, and which is very long with very good glide. For more fade and into a headwind, I use a QOLF.

Anyway, 380-400 is on the course. At a field I gain maybe 20-30 ft, but that's repetitive throwing under ideal conditions.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:09 pm

BentElbow11 wrote:
UncleBrother2001 wrote:
BentElbow11 wrote:
UncleBrother2001 wrote:Would you guys consider average distances with the Beasts around 380ft to 390ft pretty decent? When I hear about people getting these over 400ft I feel I'm doing something wrong.

Instead of me trying to rip these things a ton,I'm just being more finesse with them and just letting them rip out of the hand. If I try throwing them too hard I get this pain right above my My rotator cuff below my shoulder. When I'm smooth there is no pain. I guess it's just me getting older :lol:


Yes, pretty decent. More stable champs should be good out to about 450 in calm conditions. How often do you need 450 ft drives though? I hope you're not overthrowing the Beast trying to get it to go as far as a Tern can. If your Tern was getting to 400 and your Beast is getting to 380, not a problem, IMO.


To be honest I would like to be able to throw that far,but I think if I would have reached that distance I would have by now.

I guess I'm guilty in that aspect. I was trying to overthrow them,but then I was getting some OAT in the mix. When I went back to being Finesse,which I should do all the time now, I was throwing them much more Consistent and between 380ft to 390ft.

I shouldn't get so frustrated like I do just because of that. I'm having to relearn things and deal with a disc not breaking that 400ft mark everynow and then.I'm for sure going back to being Finesse. I worked with that quite a bit yesterday. Doing standstills and just a 3 step X-Step and made sure I was smooth the whole way. Once I got the feel back I was maybe 5ft off of me trying to rip it as hard as I could throws.

Those high speed discs spoiled me :lol:


450 ft, and even 400 are just numbers, nothing magical about it. There aren't many holes where you'll need that. It can be fun to air things out at a field and try for bigger distance drives, but on a course, I don't even think about exactly how far each drive is going with which disc.

Oh, I think you'll be happier in the long run with drivers like the Beast(situational) and PD. The Beast, to me, is a longer and slightly more stable Valkyrie. What's not to like? If your PD isn't getting quite the distance you want, step up to an Orc, or even a Wraith...Orc 2.0cm, Wraith 2.1cm. And then maybe use the PD as more of a control driver.

FYI, I typically max out at 380-400 ft, with the occasional big bomb(for me) to about 430. This is on the course. At a field I gain maybe 20-30 ft, but that's repetitive throwing under ideal conditions.


Ok good. I need to get in that mindset as well. I always worry about how far a disc goes when I'm throwing those long holes. I should be more worried about placement instead and doing what I'm known for(my accuracy).

I've thought about trying an Orc but I have never thrown one before. Are they slightly less stable than a PD? Other than the P-PD I feel my C-Line and S-Line are more or less longer utlities for me. I'd say the C-Line and S-Line are more 360-370ft while the P-PD can go as far as my Beasts.

Sweet man. We share the same average distances. :thumbup:
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:21 pm

Right, I don't even sweat distance out on a course, unless I'm just off with my driving for some reason. But even so, if I'm off, it's miniscule...the difference between feeling a really good hit, and getting something slightly less than that.

Yes, Orc is slightly less stable than the PD...the operative word being "slightly". But's it's longer. You can get some real big drives with Orcs. It's a great disc, but the Wraith came out shortly after and overshadowed the Orc.

P-PD's, like base Pro OLF's are entirely different animals when it comes to stability, as in not very stable at all.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned my distance...thought you might be able to relate.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:29 pm

BentElbow11 wrote:Right, I don't even sweat distance out on a course, unless I'm just off with my driving for some reason. But even so, if I'm off, it's miniscule...the difference between feeling a really good hit, and getting something slightly less than that.

Yes, Orc is slightly less stable than the PD...the operative word being "slightly". But's it's longer. You can get some real big drives with Orcs. It's a great disc, but the Wraith came out shortly after and overshadowed the Orc.

P-PD's, like base Pro OLF's are entirely different animals when it comes to stability, as in not very stable at all.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned my distance...thought you might be able to relate.


Cool Thanks for that man. If the Local Shop has any I'll try a Pro Orc first and see how I like it.

At the moment my disc throwin will have to wait for a few days. My two friends who go with me a lot are wearin me out wanting to go everyday down here at the Local Course. I've got them both in age by about 7 years so I got to tell them this ol dog needs some rest :lol:
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:04 pm

Pro Orc will have lots of glide, more than the Champion. I threw one for awhile, they get beat quick though. Some people claim the Orc doesn't have a lot of glide, but not true!! It has the old "4" glide rating that Innova was putting on some of their drivers in the past, which I think is what makes people say that. But it has as much glide as any Wraith I've thrown, and more than a PD for sure. Think longer PD, just as controllable, and with better glide.

Try the Pro Orc and see what you think. Avoid the freak flat champs though, they fly differently.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:42 pm

Orc follow-up...I was at a field a couple weeks ago throwing, among other discs, my champ Orc and my QOLF...together, back and forth, dozens of throws. The OLF(which is basically a PD) couldn't touch the Orc on glide or distance. The Orc was beating it throw after throw. Both champs, close in weight(168g vs 167g), and both with normal domes. It was interesting to see this in real conditions, and although I figured the Orc would be longer than the OLF, I didn't expect it to kick its butt. I use the OLF as more of a control driver and for headwinds, since it's more overstable, so no problem. But it was an eye opener.
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