Teebirds and Eagles and Cylones and wind

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Teebirds and Eagles and Cylones and wind

Postby Bradley Walker » Wed May 10, 2006 12:15 pm

I have been following the Blake style minimalist less overstabloe disc program. I am very happy with this program, as in a short period of time I have learned that throwing long and straight is mostly about the throw aad not the disc.

I have a stack of Pro Cyclones and few D Cyclones. Their flight vary very consistently by weight. Heavier discs are mosre stable lighter, less so (the exeption being the "more overtable" POS Cyclone2 I have in X plastic that flips over faster than Paris Hilton) . The Cyclone flies generally about the same even when warped and pretty beat, and I have only thrown one away that I bought from the used bin). The disc has to be totally beat, and I mean totally beat not to fly pretty much normally.

One thing I have noticed is that the D-Cyclone is noticably slower than the old "Cyclone plastic" Cyclones, and those "Cylcone plastic" discs are slower than than my first run Cyclone. While the furst run Cyclone is noticably longer (by about 30' on average) the D Cyclone is just as long as the Pro EVEN THOUGH IT FLIES SIGNIFICANTLY SLOWER.

In an effort to find a faster, longer Cyclone, I bought 3 DX Eagles. The main concern being the rim width. I have a grip that works very well with all of my discs (Cyclone, Roc, Aviar, Cheetah) and I HATED the fact that my grip had to change once you gradualted to an Orc or Wraith. I HATE THIS!!! "Old style" discs have no wing, and mostly bead, and the rim fits into the crook of my index finger just great, so I went to the store and found a disc with a cyclone like bead tha fit my grip.

The Eagle is good disc and is very "fast", even compared to a Wraith (I think). The glide (for me) is very Wraith like, in fact. One point of fact is that DX plastic "glides", period, and there is no need for a huge wing to get the glide, like you need from CE plastic. The flight of the Eagle is very Cyclone like (small hyser flip, almost no fade) but is much less forgiving than a Cyclone. The Eagle is significantly more forgiving than a Wraith, Orc, etc. Nose angle is so critical on these discs for max D.

I have my longest field throw to date with my 172 Eagle, which was 480 feet. It was all in the glide, not the snap BTW.

Glide is everything, the disc must FLY to go far IMHO. Everyone is so enamored with speed, but the it is the glide that ALWAYS gets the big D for me. Speed is just easier to throw 350' (hence the overwhelming popularity of fast discs). After that most people need glide. Also, are people willing to throw these discs against each other in a field and truly see the difference? I doubt it, or they might be wondering why they would sacrifice pinpoint accuracy for 3-5 steps in distance (and most likely only at certain wind angles)...

...I have a buddy that can tomahawk a CE Orc 300', and it never "flies" (in the true flying disc sense) at all. I "fly" my Aviar 300'. In a real sense, maybe not as effective overall, but I do not see throwing overhand as improving any other aspect of the flying disc arsenal. In other words, try tomahawking a 150' tight tunnel shot.

Yesterday I bought two DX Teebirds. The disc appears to be a refined Eagle, and has almost ZERO fade. It appears to be even a bit more forgiving than the Eagle, but I am not will to say that yet. It actually flies like a fast Roc (although not nearly as forgiving as a Roc) and the glide is dead straight. If the wind is not blowing in excess it will go right where you point it (like a Roc), and is very long with a reasonably good snap.

This brings me to my question, if the wind is blowing what would be a good disc for headwinds, with a short wing (small bead), in DX type plastic (it does not necessarily be Innova)? Is the XS overstable enought to be a headwind disc?
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Postby Aaron_D » Wed May 10, 2006 12:33 pm

throw dx teebirds on 80% of my drives. when I feel there is a headwind that will mess with my "normal" drive, I use a star teebird. the moderate overstability of the star plastic is plenty for me to feel comfortable throwing into the wind. as far as dx recommendations...i carry a dx firebird (169g) and this thing wouldnt flip in hurricane force winds, but it usually only gets used for skip shots, short sharp curves, etc. generally, if the shot is not a drive and the wind is a factor, I will bust out the wizard and stay F*** YOU to the wind. (god i love the wizard)
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Re: Teebirds and Eagles and Cylones and wind

Postby Solty » Wed May 10, 2006 12:41 pm

Bradley Walker wrote:(the exeption being the "more overtable" POS Cyclone2 I have in X plastic that flips over faster than Paris Hilton)


Man, i think you made the pope blush on that one!

Great analogy!


I too have retreated back to teebirds as my primary driver. When there is a strong headwind, i usually grab the newest teebird i have and use that. the newer they are, the more stable they are. Also, like aaron, i carry a Star TB as well...but havent had to use it for headwinds that often.

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Postby TexasOutlaw » Wed May 10, 2006 2:42 pm

I didn't realize eagles were that fast; I may have to see if I can find one.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Wed May 10, 2006 3:39 pm

they arent too fast, they can just handle fast arm speeds fairly well. I agree that they are teebird fast (as innova states). They are accually rather versitle, but not quite as versitle as a d cyclone.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Wed May 10, 2006 4:05 pm

Thatdirtykid wrote:they arent too fast, they can just handle fast arm speeds fairly well.


An Eagle is very much like a Cyclone + and needs an appropriate amount of + arm.

Hey, drop the $6.99 and try one. Smack it into the ground until it flips and glides like you like.

On that note, the Teebird and Eagle take a lot of abuse without changing the flight characteristics (like a Cyclone, but not as good).
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Postby presidio hills » Wed May 10, 2006 4:36 pm

i've had a lot of success throwing DX eagles into headwind. have you tried them out yet?
also, i think they rule for sidearms and thumbers... which is sweet because all of those things generally require a more overstable disc than a dx eagle, but it works anyways.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Wed May 10, 2006 5:04 pm

presidio hills wrote:i've had a lot of success throwing DX eagles into headwind. have you tried them out yet?
also, i think they rule for sidearms and thumbers... which is sweet because all of those things generally require a more overstable disc than a dx eagle, but it works anyways.


Yes, I have been testing Eagles into 10+ MPH winds and they flip pretty easy from a heyser. Teebirds are really no better for me into the wind. I feel they are similar in high speed flip but fade less at the end. Teebirds also see to glide similar to an Eagle, but my biggest glide throws have still been with Eagles.
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Postby Blake_T » Wed May 10, 2006 7:51 pm

eagles are a bit flippier than eagles, but eagles are more predictable on the fade end and are also lower profile and more wind friendly.
the main thing is that eagles will come back if they have sufficient height under them, even into a good wind (up to around 25 mph).

one thing to consider, a good chunk of the new dx eagles are actually EL's. real E's have a notch on the wing similar to a teebird.

teebirds do have more glide than an eagle, but it's less apparent as teebirds don't really like being flipped and eagles will fly with a full flex.

as for overstable discs with a narrow rim, my favorite of the bunch was the elite pro xtra. i found those to be the longest of them but still to be very overstable (at both high and low speeds).

other discs that fit the description:
x-clone
banshee
firebird
pegasus
x2
reaper
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Thu May 11, 2006 10:25 am

I threw an eagle a bit, and it still doesn't seem that fast to me.

But, What do I know? I didn't realize x trackers were considered fast discs. I guess it depends what you're comparing them too.

My x trackers have overlapped with my x avengers; alas, one must leave the bag.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Thu May 11, 2006 10:56 am

TexasOutlaw wrote:I threw an eagle a bit, and it still doesn't seem that fast to me.

But, What do I know? I didn't realize x trackers were considered fast discs. I guess it depends what you're comparing them too.


Alas, it is difficult defining disc flight characteristics.

Hint, I have NEVER thought a Wraith was "fast". It glides very well at the last half of the flight that is why it goes long. A light Orc is fast. I gets out there in a hurry, but has little glide.

I would figure the lower the profile of the disc, the faster it will go, period. Less drag, more speed/more drag more speed. The Wraith has more of a wing than a Flick. A TL Flick would haul ass, but would have zero glide.

The Eagle and Teebird both have that wonderful glide at the last half of the flight (like a Cylcone but faster). In that respect they appear to faster to me at the end of the flight. This is very much like the Wraith with its fast glide. I guess that is what I meant...

Speed out of the hand only gets you to a certain distance, if the disc has limited glide. That is why everyone loves a Wraith or Surge. Those long wings make the most of the speed you have, especially in the more flippy, beat in Pro varieties and lighter weights.
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Postby Weebl » Thu May 11, 2006 10:34 pm

I too, am convinced that Flicks are the fastest disc I've seen... a buddy i play with throws these side arm and I've seen him hit 500' drives in an amazingly short amount of airtime... He throws far as hell, but it's his only drive and can't manipulate the shot to how he wants it to go.

I'm very tempted to only carry Teebirds as my driver, with a leopard as my fairway driver (along with mids+putter) for the next month or more. Buying a stack of the new DX Teebirds to last me (if the new plastic is the SUPER shiney stuff that reflects like pro, because i love that stuff...) All but one TB will be DX, the 11x champion TB will be for winds, as it's a piggy.
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Postby Eric O » Fri May 12, 2006 4:36 pm

Weebl wrote:I'm very tempted to only carry Teebirds as my driver, with a leopard as my fairway driver (along with mids+putter) for the next month or more. Buying a stack of the new DX Teebirds to last me (if the new plastic is the SUPER shiney stuff that reflects like pro, because i love that stuff...) All but one TB will be DX, the 11x champion TB will be for winds, as it's a piggy.
That is exactly my current driver setup. It works better than anything else I have experimented with to this point. The Champ Tbird I carry is a touch heavier than the DX stuff I typically throw and is plenty overstable for my needs.

I can get marginally more distance out of the Orion LS or Sidewinder I sometimes carry, but there is something about the sweet flight of a DX Teebird I have really grown to appreciate. Besides what is another 30ft of distance when it isn't guaranteed to be sitting in the middle of the fairway.
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Postby Blake_T » Fri May 12, 2006 10:25 pm

Eric O wrote: Besides what is another 30ft of distance when it isn't guaranteed to be sitting in the middle of the fairway.


to 95% of golfers, that 30' is the world to them.

take a look at how many 250-325' power throwers have orcs and wraiths in their bags and you will see exactly what i am talking about :)
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