Understable Driver

[K.C. Lofty]

I love the feel and the long right float of a brand new ArchAngel DX.

That feel lasts about three rounds at my favorite course because it runs right through a pine forest. After smacking into a few trees the float part of the right turn is gone, so it turns right and dives into the ground.

And I am sick of buying the same disc again and again. (and again .. I now need my fourth one. Innova needs to make a CE Roc too! but those don't smack the trees quite as hard)

I am considering spending an even larger chunk of change to buy a "Fund Raiser" version of the Archangel in the CE plastic, but am not sure if it will have the characteristics that I want in the new plastic.

So ... now comes the question.

What are everyone's favorite understable drivers ? Does it come in plastic that can withstand a few good trees?

I am considering the Discraft Elite Z Xpress ... any comments on that one?

[Blake_T]

well, have a few things to say on this matter.

1) the term "dives" implies that your throw may have some torque in it and coupled with the archangel being one of the least predictable discs ever designed, this disc likely isn't the best choice in the long run for you. the "float" you talk about is caused by the arch's low speed overstability and isn't really a characteristic of any truly understable disc.

2) the only predictable turn characteristics come from discs in plastics with high air friction. dx, pro d, s, etc. as air friction decreases, the discs are less apt to respond. the cfr archangel is actually quite overstable. throwing a turnover shot is similar to throwing a curveball in baseball, a scuffed ball will curve more easily than a new ball, similarly a beat disc will turn more easily than a new one. elite x and pro plastic has more air friction than dx types. it will generally take 18 months or so to turn a z/champ plastic disc into a good turnover disc.

also, most roc throwers prefer rocs when they are super beat and plastic that makes rocs fly like new longer makes this more difficult. i will actually thrash my rocs before they ever see serious bag time.

3) depending upon a disc's flight characteristics when new is depending upon the shortest possible segment of a disc's lifespan. a very understable disc when new will be a roller when very broken in. a disc that begins stable and breaks in will become a turnover disc for a very long time before it becomes a roller. my dx eagles last approx 8-12 months before they become a turnover and ~18 months before they become rollers. my suggestion is to find a disc that flies straight to very slightly understable when new that you can break in to a turnover disc.

as for recommendations on discs.

the z xpress is pretty much stable when new and takes forever to break in to the point where it will predictably turn. the only predictably turning champ disc is probably the panther and that will become a roller after it breaks in and is not a distance disc.

i use beat up dx teebirds, dx valks, and d cyclones as my turnover discs. i used to use elite x xl's and broken in polaris ls's. discs like the dx cheetah, raven, dx orc, etc. are other examples of discs that will hold a good turn without rolling after they are broken in. imo, you are better off hoping your disc will hit a tree so that it will turn more rather than hoping your disc will not hit a tree so that it will turn too much.

[K.C. Lofty]

That is some very good information... Thanks.

However, there is a very large difference between broken and broken in.

My old archangel is broken ... It does not fly well. I needed to replace it, and not with a disc that is going to be overstable for months until it starts to do what I need. I needed an understable disc now.

I went to the disc store, and and I did not like the rim on the DC Xpress. It felt too much like my stingray ... which is a great understable disc, but too slow for many of the shots I need of it.

So, I got myself a champion sidewinder. Great rim, great speed, very nice right turn abilities.

Then I took it to the course, and birdied the hole that I really needed it for. So, I am very happy with my choice of a new understable disc. Also, I feel that it will hold the line that I need for a very long time.

Again, thanks. I may pickup a cheap dx and start smacking it around for my next turnover disc.

[K.C. Lofty]

After a few more rounds ... I just wanted to rave a bit about the Champion Sidewinder.

I love it. In my unprofessional opinion, it's one of the easiest control discs ever made. Second only to a discraft elite Z XL with my mildly low power throw.

All I need to do is think about the line I want it to travel, and it does it (almost).

Long floating anhyzers ... just turn the outside up a bit aim a touch higher. Quick flat helix ... turn the outside edge up half a bit, throw level and fast. Throw it hyzer and fast, and it makes a good flip hyzer ... quickly flattens out, finishes level and straight. A little more hyzer and it makes a nice long left arc towards the target.

The combination of speed and glide make this disc almost unique.

I really did buy it for one particular hole at my favorite course. (Hole 7, Brahan Springs course, Huntsville Alabama) 360 feet of narrow fairway through a pine forest. First 130 feet is straight out, then a long curve to the RIGHT , finally, when it stables out, it's running right at the hole. It's a tough one, considering that there are at least 70 trees that it's possible to hit between you and the hole.

however, I now grab it for several other holes on my favorite course. Hole 16 requires a long big helix. Hole 17 requires a fast flat helix. Hole 14 requires a huge anhyzer bomb.

This disc has also given me the confidence to explore the "left hand" route on several other hole with fairly good results.