What's really so bad about OAT's?

[Takeichi]

Is it innaccurate compared to having no torque? or is it just like slicing in ball golf? just wondering

[adidadg]

If you can turn it on and off it can be useful, but otherwise you'll have a really tough time throwing straight

[Takeichi]

on a side note the newer discs are just getting more and more stable and i'm beginning to guess that Oats will be a big part of the game in the years to come.

[garublador]

If you can turn it on and off it can be useful, but otherwise you'll have a really tough time throwing straight

Being able to control off-axis torque is crutial when it comes to shaping differnent shots. Not being able to control it means your disc selection will be limited, you won't have control of where your discs fly and you'll be missing out on power.

[garublador]

on a side note the newer discs are just getting more and more stable and i'm beginning to guess that Oats will be a big part of the game in the years to come.

That's also a reason people throw Destroyers on 250' holes and can't throw a Roc >50' without turning it into a cut-roller.

[SkaBob]

Discs aren't just getting more stable. Look at some of discraft's recent releases. 150 Surge, Avenger SS, Surge SS, Force...all of them are pretty flippy when you get down to it. Discs are getting FASTER to some extent, but not necessarily more stable.

[tumpsi]

I'm not sure if I understand the term OAT correctly. Could someone explain it,
really slowly, with pics 'n vids 'n shit. So, what is off axis torque, and what it
causes to a disc golf discs flight path?

[garublador]

Torque is a force about an axis. The axis we're talking about is the one perpendicular to the center of the disc and pointing through the center of the disc. Any torque imparted about a different axis is considered to be "off-axis."

Examples of ways to impart off-axis torque are rolling your wrist over or finishing on a lower plane than you threw on, both of which cause discs to act more understable, or rolling your wrist under or finishing on a higher plane than you threw on, both of which cause the disc to act more overstable.

[Eric O]

Is it innaccurate compared to having no torque? or is it just like slicing in ball golf? just wondering

Having no torque would be impossible when you are trying to propel a disc. Off axis just means you aren't focusing your energy/momentum along the plane you are throwing on. The result is you don't get all the energy you are producing into your throw, and also the disc will want to burn out. I don't know much about ball golf but that sounds like a slice to me. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

on a side note the newer discs are just getting more and more stable and i'm beginning to guess that Oats will be a big part of the game in the years to come.

I don't think so, except in the instance where OAT will become a factor that more people new to the sport will eventually have to overcome while learning to throw discs properly. I mean how long can you go on throwing a Destroyer 250ft after you keep seeing people outdrive you with a putter? Those that stick to the sport very long are going to want to learn to get the most out of slower more controllable molds.

[Eric O]

By the way, I didn't mean to reproduce garu's post. He beat me to the punch while I was typing it out.

[tumpsi]

..and what do you mean when you say "rolling the wrist under/over"? :-)
edit: oh how much i hate that :) emoticon

[Eric O]

wrist roll over: if you throw RHBH you would be cocking your wrist clockwise too far

roll under: the opposite

These are not things you want to have happen unless you are doing it on purpose to manipulate flight in a certain way.

[tumpsi]

thx

[black udder]

I don't know that the destroyer is any more stable than any other recent batch of new drivers. Faster, yes. But dunno about more stable. I picked up a 168g dx destroyer at a tournament and it's certainly useable for my power (around 300'). With a slight wind or a good tug, it'll even turn over a bit.

As for OAT and the stability of discs. It's typical for new throwers to roll their wrist over or get off plane because they're unfamiliar with proper form. They typically start with 1-2 discs and they get beat up pretty quickly. Thus, they believe that those discs are now too understable for them. They then go and look for a disc that's more stable, thinking that the previous one is too understable for their power. They could just go buy a new version of the same disc. Now, they find with the new, more stable disc, that the discs don't go as far, so they throw harder, causing more lack of control and more OAT and wrist roll.

Throwing on plane is just like the letter T. Your body is the I and your arm the cross. Throwing right handed, you would be level on the left side and finish on the right hand side. The opposite for lefties. If you're throwing hyzer, you would just tile the cross down on the left side and up the same amount on the right side.

[Eric O]

I don't know that the destroyer is any more stable than any other recent batch of new drivers. Faster, yes. But dunno about more stable.

That's likely the case, but here is the rub:

Faster pretty much means it's intended to fly at a higher cruising speed. To achieve higher cruising speeds typically means being able to generate larger amounts of snap. The further one is from being able to produce enough snap to make a disc hit the speed it was designed to fly at, the more overstable the disc will behave in flight.

So a Destroyer is going to pick up progressively more overstable characteristics as you go lower down the pyramid of disc throwing technique.