ACID'S DYE TUTORIAL!!!

Disc Artwork, Dying, Technique etc...

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Postby nice drive kid » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:59 pm

I've made a sharpie "stamp" on my champion Beast before I knew about dying. Do you think that if I try to make it an actual dye the sharpie would interfere with the dye setting right? Should I try to remove the sharpie stamp before I dye it or will it be ok?
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Postby Fritz » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:58 pm

nice drive kid wrote:I've made a sharpie "stamp" on my champion Beast before I knew about dying. Do you think that if I try to make it an actual dye the sharpie would interfere with the dye setting right? Should I try to remove the sharpie stamp before I dye it or will it be ok?


No, in fact, it'll just cement the sharpie into the disc.
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Postby DELETED » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:00 pm

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Postby rusch_bag » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14 pm

I don't know if this has been asked already but is it okay to cut right onto the disc? I used to cut mine out and then try to put it on and it never really worked out very well but I didn't want to cut the disc because I thought that would make it illegal. Anyone know about this?
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Postby ccs1676 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:17 pm

Well, Acid does it this way and it turns out fine, but apparently you can cut into the disc if you are not careful. I doubt cuts into your disc would make it illegal. Think about it, your discs gets little cuts in it everytime it hits rocks, etc...
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Postby ChUcK » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:16 pm

There's a wide spectrum of amount you can cut into the disc, from not-at-all to completely texas-chainsaw-massacre. I'm partial to the not-at-all theory (cutting the fence separately and transferring it to the disc), but you can get away with cutting directly onto the plastic as long as you don't he-man it. I've never seen a disc that had vinyl cut on top of it that didn't have at least faint scratches in it, but these scratches affect the disc flight exponentially less than poor form or bad release angle. To say that it doesn't affect the flight at all would be foolish, because every last little molecule of air vs plastic affects the flight. However, I feel it makes the disc look tacky with razor scratches on it. Even if no one can tell that they're there, it still looks tacky to me.

However, I don't think that the discs are illegal. There's no specific provisions about it in the rulebook, and I don't think I've ever seen a rules Q&A about it.
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Some more....

Postby disctribution » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:41 am

ok, here are some tips for the real enthusiast.

I found a 12" vinyl cutter on ebay for about $100 or less. It's made by USCutter. It's not a PREMIUM cutter but comes with everything you need to cut out designs. Now I bought this specifically for cutting disc designs, but you can by a 24" or 42" cutter for a little more, and cut out a lot of other types of designs.

Also, I found a 12" roll of vinyl for $13. It's 50 yards long! That's right, 13 bucks for 50 yards. It's white but who cares what color.

Guess what,.another 50 yard roll of transfer tape on ebay for about $15. Can't go wrong.

I use an exacto knife for one thing only, for easy removal of already cut vinyl pieces.

It is important to have clean, dust free, smooth vinyl when cutting. If you have dirty vinyl your cuts will start to have hangs, which will make the application much more difficult. I have my vinyl cutter cut out my design, cut excess vinyl off, depending on the design will either remove the cut pieces, or apply the transfer tape. I've discovered that transfering the entire design on the disc, THEN removing the cut pieces works well, because the neighboring vinyl is stuck to the disc, and less likely to be pulled up when removing the vinyl holes. Also, when pulling vinyl off the disc, ALWAYS pull directly off, perpendicular to the disc surface, if you try and scrape or scratch the vinyl off, you will definitely leave the glue residue behind, which makes for a awesome fun cleanup job later.

WAIT, before I go any further, there is a really really easy two color process that can be done here. Let's say I want to do a disc with a red picture and black lettering around it. I'm going to remove the black lettering from the disc first. Dye it, using the same technique as Acid's post, clean, dry, and then remove the vinyl for the red picture. You can then dye directly on the places where the black lettering was, because the only thing the red dye is going to do is make your black a little blacker. Now, remove the vinyl stencil and you'll have your simple two color design. This works well for any color in combination with black. You can also mix colors that you are confident are going to mix well....

For example: I would dye the inside of a flame red, remove the next ring of the flame and dye it orange, then finally remove the outer ring of the flame and dye it yellow. Each color coordinates with the previous color and fortifies it. My red got a little redder, and my orange a little oranger (?).

I can make a similar post to Acid's showing the equipment I use, and pictures of each step I take to make multiple color dyes if anyone is interested. If so, let me know here.

I don't claim to be a professional disc dyer or anything, but I've ruined dozens of discs to get to where I am today! I still have a buttload to learn to get to some of the dyes I see out there. WiDye is the most impressive I've seen, does anyone know his secrets? He doesn't answer emails.
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Postby ChUcK » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:21 pm

Yeah, when I was all starry-eyed about a disc dyeing company I went out and bought one of those USCutter plotters, 12" rolls of vinyl, etc.

Used all of it once. (except the vinyl- I experimented with it some more in the vain hope that I didn't get completely ripped off)

After seeing professional plotters in action, I can safely say that the USCutter ones are garbage, but they do cut vinyl. I hope you found better bargain basement 12" vinyl than I got, because that stuff left half its mass of gooey residue on the disc and costs much more if you account the extra time spent dealing with vinyl shenanigans.

The main factor is this: if you want the same design dyed a million times, then a plotter is the way to go. After spending a lot of time getting the vector design exactly the way you want it, then every disc after that is a snap. But, a similar amount of time is spent in getting a design cut once by hand, and you're left with a unique disc that someone will covet forever (well, until they lose it- custom dyes seem to have almost zero chance of being returned when found)

So you just have to decide if you want a hundred identical discs, or one unique disc. The answer's not the same for everybody. Huklab is a perfect candidate for a plotter, to pump out their tri-fly discs in the most economical way for their business. Most of us on the forums are better off slugging it out with an xacto blade, unless you really want to make the same expensive mistake I did.

Funny story- I was approached by Huklab with a tentative offer to buy my plotter after I expressed discontent with it on ODSA. It turns out they were having a sign shop cut all of their vinyl for them. I gently turned them down, informing them of the crappiness of USCutter and recommended they shell out a little extra for a real plotter. Never did find out which brand they went with, but I hope it was a good one, because Jay deserves it. :)
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Postby disctribution » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:35 pm

Couldn't agree with you more, USCutter is pretty much bottom-of-the-barrell when it comes to vinyl cutters. But I've been using mine for discs for about a year and have finally got my design-EPS-cut time down to only about 10 minutes. I'm considering buying a real cutter because I have other projects now, but I'd have to say the USCutter was worth the $100 I paid. I've cut and dyed well over 100 discs since I received it, and somehow haven't even changed the blade. I always cut at the lowest force and slowest speed, which is probably the explanation for a long lasting blade.

The software is junk as well, but it serves it's purpose well enough. If I bought this thing thinking I'd have professional cuts I'd be soooooooo pissed. I'll post some pictures of what this cutter is capable of. I've done some very intricut designs with it.
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Postby ChUcK » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:05 pm

This is the one disc I did with the plotter (Tim and I collaborated).

Image

You can see the curves are perfect, with no polygonization (that might not be a real word) that you tend to get when cutting circles and such by hand. Also, it's really hard to make text look good when done by hand. Plottered text usually looks as perfect as it does on your computer screen.

All this, of course, depends upon dyeing skill as well. No amount of perfectly cut vinyl can hide poor craftsmanship with a pan o black RIT death!


It's too bad this star Orc got away from Tim. I think it was one of his main go-to discs and was always good as a conversation piece. I just hope whoever found it and kept it is actually throwing it instead of piling it in his/her trunk along with their other captured booty.
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Postby some call me...tim? » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:33 pm

*sigh* I really do miss the Toilet. :cry:

Ya know Chuck, I see a lot of people pimping your dyes around lately...and I think I've only got ONE of them in my bag...oh no...two. I do believe that's the extent of what I own. Needless to say, I'm feeling left out, and I've got lots of delicious, plain jane plastic just looking so run of the mill. Yes, I am dropping a hint on a public forum. :wink:
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Postby disctribution » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:01 pm

Haha that's an awesome design. I can see how it would be a conversation starter. My biggest problem in dying is actually finding unique designs. I search the web using google image search, I also browse through all the decal sights to see if there's anything I want to rip, but lately I'll just throw together some generic art or draw something. Do you design your own art?
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Postby AciDBatH666 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:31 pm

The problem I found with plotters (with what limited information ive gotten out of ppl) was that the 12" ones aren't worth it. A guy in Baton Rouge that runs a sign shop (whos a dg'r) was asking me all sorts of questions as to how Im getting my stuff so clean and all that. I answered his questions.... Then I asked him about plotters and he was reluctant to answer.. Like Im gonna take his business away from him or something.

The only info I've gotten is that you're better off getting a 15" or 24" because the rolls are a LOT easier to find. Plus if I did get a plotter that big, I'd want to cut custom decals for friends and local clubs for spare change here and there.
Or even windshield banners. Also I couldn't get any definite answers about software for the budget plotters. Which I went with my gut and instinct and just decided that the software that comes with it is most likely trash.

If Im going to invest in a plotter, It's going to be a bigger one that I can do more than just dye prints for. But I'd be spending most of my time on illustrator on my comp instead of doing it by hand.
I've already got plenty of Carpal Tunnel issues with doing 3d Modeling for tools in the oilfield industry for a living... Being on a comp 8 hours a day just for work..... on top of lots of Call of Duty4 on the PS3, Several years of nonstop raiding on Warcraft (thank god I quit that addiction), and playing my bass for several hours a night.
So for me, it just wasn't worth it to invest in a plotter because I didn't wanna spend the time on it anymore. I'm like chuck, Once I do a dye, I DONT want to do it again. It loses it's flavor and originality. I'll do multiple small logos on a guy's disc for em, Like his call sign or something, but I wont do the same elaborate print on a 2nd disc.
So a plotter isn't really needed for me.

Not dissing it or anything. Just saying why I decided to not go ahead and get one. I just didnt wanna spend so much time getting my money back from my investing by doing dye work. Im doing some dye jobs for Glock right now and i've had the discs for about a month and it's comin along pretty slow. But he knew I didn't have much time. I made him pretty aware that it might take a while for me to get to any dye work for him. its coming tho, just at a crawling pace :(
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Postby disctribution » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:13 pm

Well I went ahead and posted a quick picture tutorial on how I do it with a plotter. It's very brief and crude, but I said I was gonna do it.

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6181
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Postby Triplebogey » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:18 pm

Could someone possible post a sticky topic listing which plastics can be dyed??
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