Distance

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Distance

Postby alerik » Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:44 pm

I have a question regarding how you actually measure drive distance. Is it measured from point A to point B, or is it measured by total flight distance?
If I can't beat you now, I will practice until I can.
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:23 am

distance is measured from point A to point B.

however, it is good to consider flight distance as well. to throw a 250' shot that you pull out 50' to the right and have it fade 50' back to the left, you will be throwing the disc 350'. for this type of shot i will generally disc up to a driver to compensate for it.
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Postby alerik » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:43 am

Thanks for a quick response!

In you article on choosing the right disc you classified drivers into 4 different tiers based on the drive distance.

My average drive is about 275' from the tee. I know that my average dive covers over 300' in flight distance.

So I guess my question is, which tier do I fall under?

In case this helps, lately I have been driving with:
170 C. Banshee (Headwinds)
165 Pro Teebird-L (Stability)
169 C. Leopard (Under Stable)

I drive about the same distance with all of them with the C. Banshee having more flight distance due to overstableness.
If I can't beat you now, I will practice until I can.
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:52 am

you are sitting at the top end of tier 2 or lower end of tier 3.

keep in mind i broke up the tiers in terms of consistent distance and accuracy. you will probably have throws that go slightly farther with tier 4 drivers... but they will also have a much higher deviation in distance and decreased accuracy. imo, people are always best off matching the power of their throw with discs and taking greater fairway accuracy over an extra 10' of D.
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Postby alerik » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:30 am

Once again thank you for a quick response.

O.K. So I'm hovering between tiers. I guess my next question would have to be:
When or how will I know when it is time for me to step up to faster discs?
Is there a benchmark for distance that says OK once you can throw X amount of distance with give disc accuratly you should or need to step up?

Keep in mind, I am in no hurry to step up. I used to throw C. Beasts, C. Orcs, and an occasional Z Crush. All the discs are now in a milk crate. I realized by reading up on disc golf that I wasn't ready to throw those kind of distance drivers and get the most out of them. I pulled them from my bag and I started throwing my C. Leopard and Teebird-L. I also use a DX Gazelle 168 from time to time.

PS What does imo stand for?
If I can't beat you now, I will practice until I can.
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:18 pm

the easiest way to really tell is to give them a toss every so often and see if you can make them do whatever you want to do.

each disc will differ slightly and have a different power requirement to throw straight.

for the majority of the newer drivers i recommend about 325' of consistent power with slower discs.

discs like the wraith, venom, and crush will take a little more.

imo, the plastic it is run in is more important than the speed. i find too often players step up to champ/z plastic before they have some basic fundamentals mastered. e.g. knowing how to force a disc to turn vs. knowing how to let a disc turn. a common mis-step are players developing a throw around forcing a disc to turn and then being unable to throw a disc well without it turning.
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Postby alerik » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:05 pm

This is really helping understand what to throw and when to step up to something else. It explains why most people I see are throwing heavy max weight Z and Champion distance drivers and just clipping 300'. The good players I noticed don't pull any distance drivers out unless they need to go 400'+.

Also what about Innova's Pro plastic or Discraft's Elite X plastic?
I like the grippy feel it has and is more durable than DX or Pro-D plastic. In learing to throw better I manage to do a lot of things wrong until something clicks and I learn. There are trees on every hole at my home course and my plastic and myself know them personally as well as the roads, sidewalks, parked vehicles, old lady's in golf carts(don't ask), and so on. There is a practice football field in my home park. I have no problem buying DX type plastic to practice with but what about when I want to play a round or a tournement when if I @#$%^& and hit a tree hard I won't ruin my disc.
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:26 pm

the thing newer players don't seem to grasp lately is that broken in plastic flies farther and straighter than new discs.

i don't evaluate a disc's flight until it has seen some trees and scuffing. i have learned to love a broken in disc's flight and despise the flight of new discs. if you end up developing the same ideal, it's a lot easier to throw dx plastic.

pro and x plastic is more prone to warping than any other type of plastic and once it has warped, it cannot be bent back into shape. it is also a little bit squirrely and falls somewhere in between champ/z and d/dx for flight characteristics.

older discs, as well as midrange and putters are generally more durable. my rocs and wizards last 3+ years and i find d cyclones tend to have a lifespan of about 18 months for me. i generally rotate the drivers i throw.

i do carry z/champ for overstable drivers.
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Postby alerik » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:23 am

Until somebody spells it out for you I guess you never really have any questions answered.

One day one the golf course I ran into some of the people in my local golf club, and they where @ 400+ hole practicing drives trying to outdo one another. I kinda jumped in to throw with them and to see how I measured up. I had only two Champion discs then (an orc and Beast) which where my main distance drivers. I watched as most of them threw about 325+ and observed their form which (at the time) I thought was similar to mine. (it may have looked the same, and I may have felt that I was doing the same things they were, but I wasn 't) none of my drives went past I guess about 225'. My C. Beast and my C. Orc going the farthest. I also threw a DX Eagle, DX Cheeta, Polaris LS, and a DX Viper none of which went over 200'. I turned to the guys in the local club and asked How did ya'll throw that far? One of the guys turned to me and said, It's that DX plastic your throwing, you need to get some champion stuff. I looked out over the fairway and there where my champion discs sitting in from of my DX discs, and their champion and Z discs sitting way in front of mine. I guess that was all the proof I needed that he was right. I know now that it was an issue of grip (I was using a one finger control grip) and form (just bad).

I didn't know enough back then to know that the advice I got wasn't really accurate. Thank you for answering my questions. I have tons and tons more. I read the posted forums, throw analysis, and technique repair almost daily, old and new. Sometimes I read something and it doesn't make any sense then after working of shots or practicing I'll come home, read, and bamm something makes perfect sense. I may have read the same forum posting or article before 20 times and then it will just make sense. I've tried to answer some of my questions by myself.

I see you repeating yourself several times to differnet people, and I'm sorry if you have to do the same with me. Thanks for the help, and the website.
If I can't beat you now, I will practice until I can.
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Postby Blake_T » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:57 pm

glad i was able to help. i don't mind people asking questions (even if they are the same ones over and over) as long as they can accept the replies i give them.

i have a lot of people that ask me a question and then try and troll for the answer they want to hear.

i had a few talks with some of the big distance gurus this weekend... most agree with me that no champ/z disc will ever break 800' within the near future.
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Postby alerik » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:46 pm

I took all the Z and Champ discs out of my bag and replaced them with the DX discs I have that I should be throwing. I have a starting point and a direction to go. Now I need to practice, take a step back, and surge forward. Again thanks for your help, and I'll let you know how things work out.
If I can't beat you now, I will practice until I can.
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Postby Supermau » Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:45 am

I think Blake's absolutely right about the plastics. I've got some original Cyclone's in my bag that are well over ten years old. Although they've been sitting in the closet for about 7 years and have only seen about 3 years of solid play they're still in great shape and I still use them today.

Personally I prefer DX plastics. I like the feel and of course the price is nice.
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Postby alerik » Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:01 pm

I bought me a DX Shark 167, and a DX Cobra 170. I threw the cobra once playing my cousin today. It flew ok. The shark on the other hand went better than possibly expected.

I finally used the correct form for throwing midrange discs, and even thought my new shark flew more overstable than I wanted i can now see that with some wear and use is will fly straight and accurate.
If I can't beat you now, I will practice until I can.
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Postby Supermau » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:23 pm

A DX Shark was one of my first purchases after picking up the game again and I think it's a fantastic disc. It'll pretty much do what you tell it to like a Roc. In fact I can hardly tell the difference between my Shark and Roc. I use it on the tight wooded courses I play 'round here.
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:43 pm

alerik:

checked out your bag and i believe the next step is to pare down some overlap.

stable to understable:
beast, valkyrie, gazelle, cheetah, leopard

overstable:
banshee, firebird, whippet

while these all fly slightly different, there are a few that can be thrown on certain lines that make the others redundant.
i try to have: understable, stable, max D (varies from stable to understable), overstable, very overstable.
often these roles can be filled carrying multiples of discs or other times via molds. i tend to throw all champ/z for overstable since those are discs i want to fade.

a disc like a cyclone, eagle or gazelle can be made to fly with nearly any line and are discs that i will carry when i only have 1 driver.
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