Bradley's wrist extension

[geoloseth]

Here's a video that we shot a little while ago. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7641171087952591604&hl=en

[Steady 26542]

I've never understood what was meant by "wrist extension." I think I might now. That doesn't mean that I can do it properly, but it is a start to at least know what it is. THANKS!!

[niuvalleycane]

a picture is worth a thousand words!

Werd! Good lookin' out

[JR]

Thanks for a classic video that should be stickied. i loved the disc almost as much as the illustration in a short amount of time about the two arcs and the concept of wrist extension.

You didn't touch on the disc pivoting between the thumb and the index finger immediately before the disc leaves the fingers after lock fingers have lost contact with the disc. That has basically the same or exactly the same arc as the wrist extension arc but the harder the pinch between the fingers and the later the they part with the disc the faster the disc will spin. There's a lot of extra spin in this if it can be achieved.

An easy exercise to see this is to grab a putter Putt'r is the easiest for gripping this. Pinch the outermost joint of the index finger upwards towards the thumb directly on top pushing against the index finger other fingers fanned to the bottom of the flight plate. Throw a laser line 20' or so putt and throw another throw with a power grip similarly and see the difference in fade and the later occurrence of the fade with the finger pinching method. That requires the pinching to be firm but not so firm that it'll grip lock which is an over achievement in pinching. Then compare the two grips on a foot higher apex repeating until you really see the differences in fade and lateness of it.

A correction to the video. In the forehand part at about 1:40 it was said that the wrist comes behind the wrist or something like that. What was meant that the wrist leads the hand, fingers and the disc. Until during the wrist extension in the last few inches of the throw before the disc releases the wrist flicks forward in the wrist extension part of the throw and the hand etc. bypass the wrist. And become closer to the target.

This is the crucial part about both forehand throws and backhand throws. Disc spin rate vs forward flight speed must be in correct relation or the disc will fade early or turn over. Ever had a forehand drive turn over when you thought your wrist was positioned right and the nose wasn't too far down and you preserved the plane of the arm swing with an overstable disc? Chances are that you pegged it out hard and fast starting the arm swing from behind your ear and didn't have monster wrist extension (snapping the wrist forward at light speed or close) in the end at high enough of a speed. For too much speed and too little spin rate on the disc. Flipping the disc over to a roller in worst cases. An easy way to force forehand rollers with stable to understable discs but not much use on actual courses.

Many people probably haven't ran across to too much speed with too little spin in backhand throws. I hadn't assigned the blame for failed throws to that cause before yesterday. I used minimal leg and hip turn back on a 2' downhill slope with 175 Champion Leopard throwing the longest line drive to 393'. If I added two leading steps to the shallow shuffle step I used I got s-curves each time. If I added an x step or worse still x step+run up steps I always got the disc to anny all the way still reaching about 370' on the longest throw. Maybe about 35-40' right of the initial line. I think there was nothing wrong with my late acceleration of the arm.

The added forward speed on top of what I was achieving with shallow shuffle steps became too much for the high speed stability of the disc and the spin rate I was able to get on the disc. Turning the disc over. Leopard is an understable disc and it's supposed to turn over. My inner part f the wrist was straight vertical and I tried to throw with flat arm plane horizontally to a couple of degrees of hyzer. There's definitely room to improve with the initial hyzer angle but I wasn't practicing that yesterday. I was exploring the speed and high speed stability of the Leopard in relation to my power generation from legs and hips in addition to loosening the arm and not forcing the wrist as far down as it goes.

Bear in mind that even though I understand the theory of wrist extension and disc pivot between fingers I'm probably not yet anywhere close in performing them as well as I'd like. And is optimal. I'm just learning and in the beginning of that journey.

[JR]

Here's a question related to this subject that spread among other topics.

In another thread you said that the more you try to throw with nose up the more the disc will fly nose down with the help of the wrist extension. How does this happen? Are you talking of the disc flipping over in flight to an s-curve where less initial front not nose of the disc down is required for the disc to fly nose down mid air. Flipping over is easier to achieve with wrist exaggeratedly down. This suggests to me that it might be something I've not noticed while the disc is still in hand mid throw. Which body parts make the disc fly nose down? I noticed in the video that the grip on the disc had the wrist rolled a lot to the right clockwise. Is that the reason for nose down with nose up attempts at releasing? That wrist roll over angle should turn discs over for s-curves and nose down. Without trying to throw nose up too. That's off axis torque probably with wrist extremely down and very flippy and very nose down. Roller territory on hard throws for moderately overstable drivers.

What am I missing in questions that makes the disc fly nose down in air when trying to throw nose up that happens during wrist extension?

[Bradley Walker]

A correction to the video. In the forehand part at about 1:40 it was said that the wrist comes behind the wrist or something like that. .

What I meant was the DISC comes from behind the arc of the wrist to in front of the wrist.

[Bradley Walker]

Using the pivot as described you can FLING the nose down. By using the arc around the wrist you can literally throw the nose and disc angle into the shot. You can use that little arc to create and separate plane unique only to the disc itself and create some wicked nose down anhysers for example.

Using the fling motion you can create more nose down than your wrist can attain, no matter how much you bend it down.

[bcsst26]

Great video. Thanks for the taking the time to posting it. The only question I have is in the video it looks as if you guys have your wrist curled up some. Is this something you guys have incorporated into your throws or do you keep your wrist pretty neutral for your throw? Also when you do throw do you concentrate on pinching the disc between the thumb and index finger to get that pivot? That is something right now I do not concentrate on. I thought I had an idea of this and went out and practiced this last night before seeing the video. I have to say that I threw one of my best putter throws ever trying this. Not sure how far it went but it was a laser. I couldn't repeat it consistently because I have some OAT issues either from wrist roll over or from not following through on the same plane. Not sure which one it is but it is getting pretty annoying. Thanks again and I look forward in exploring this topic.

[Bradley Walker]

Keep in mind, you use your WRIST and FINGERS to create the disc arc. The teaching aid is to teach the path of the travel of the disc.

This concept is MONSTER and will help anyone improve.

If my back were not complete tweaked I have no idea how well I would be hitting the disc. My SMASH FACTOR goes off the charts sometimes. I had a disc come out of my hand the other day that sounded like cannon going off and went full well and extra 70-80 feet in a huge flattened hyser (#6 at Lewisville I overshot the basket by 40 feet and the hyser was maybe 80 feet out over the lake).

I went out throwing Rocs last night in the field and I could literally SEE the disc bouncing off of my fingers as I hit the extension. My fingers looked like rubber bands. I have a new San Marino I think it went about 380 or 390 dead flat, no lie.

This is all new to me, BTW. The Fling disc has help immensely to solidify the concept of the two arcs coupled together.

[SkaBob]

But...how does the fling fly?

[Bradley Walker]

But...how does the fling fly?

I do not throw the Fling, but It flies the same or pretty close to the flight of the disc with no hole cut in it.

I guess it depends on the disc used to make a Fling. I used an Illusion for the red one in the the video.

[black udder]

Great video. Thanks for the taking the time to posting it. The only question I have is in the video it looks as if you guys have your wrist curled up some. Is this something you guys have incorporated into your throws or do you keep your wrist pretty neutral for your throw? Also when you do throw do you concentrate on pinching the disc between the thumb and index finger to get that pivot? That is something right now I do not concentrate on. I thought I had an idea of this and went out and practiced this last night before seeing the video. I have to say that I threw one of my best putter throws ever trying this. Not sure how far it went but it was a laser. I couldn't repeat it consistently because I have some OAT issues either from wrist roll over or from not following through on the same plane. Not sure which one it is but it is getting pretty annoying. Thanks again and I look forward in exploring this topic.

Yes, you want the pivot point to be your thumb/index finger. So you grip semi-tight with that and fling the disc off that point.

As for our videographers - thanks a bunch for making the video to explain the concept. It really does help explain things much more clearly.

[JR]

Using the pivot as described you can FLING the nose down. By using the arc around the wrist you can literally throw the nose and disc angle into the shot. You can use that little arc to create and separate plane unique only to the disc itself and create some wicked nose down anhysers for example.

Using the fling motion you can create more nose down than your wrist can attain, no matter how much you bend it down.

When flinging the disc forward do you push down your wrist from straight to down or push down with the thumb or pull down with the index finger to create a nose down flight for line drives? Can you also create a line drive that has the front of the disc well below horizon after the disc has reached the apex (extreme nose down) so that the disc dives forward with little to no fade in the end? How much finger pressure do you use and how late do you tighten the grip with the thumb and the index finger? Do you also have tight grip with the rest of the fingers?

I was doing a shoot out for approach step fairway driver on flat ground and had a worse day physically than yesterday losing a lot of distance off of my Leopard compared to yesterday. 340' flat ground today vs 393' 2' downhill yesterday. Despite adding more wrist fling without conscious flinging forwards of the wrist. Just loose wrist forward flap today. Stiffer and less motion but harder late quicker acceleration yesterday. Probably a little too low lines. At times more pro like flight lines that faded less than normally indicating better spin on the disc. After that some drives.

With two run up steps and almost a full turn away from the target I got a mild s-curve on golf lines out of my broken in Star Destroyer to 403' with a bit of skip. Which is good considering the thickness of the jacket, cooler weather and being tired physically. So even trying bits of wrist extension without serious effort to perform correctly or allowing the disc to pivot off of the palm between the thumb and index finger properly I still got improvements to my Destroyer distance. So anyone should gain a lot once they start getting their wrist extension and pivot between the fingers even half right because I was like 5 % right at best Not really trying to go for good form or power generation.

[geoloseth]

Here's a question related to this subject that spread among other topics.

In another thread you said that the more you try to throw with nose up the more the disc will fly nose down with the help of the wrist extension. How does this happen? Are you talking of the disc flipping over in flight to an s-curve where less initial front not nose of the disc down is required for the disc to fly nose down mid air. Flipping over is easier to achieve with wrist exaggeratedly down. This suggests to me that it might be something I've not noticed while the disc is still in hand mid throw. Which body parts make the disc fly nose down? I noticed in the video that the grip on the disc had the wrist rolled a lot to the right clockwise. Is that the reason for nose down with nose up attempts at releasing? That wrist roll over angle should turn discs over for s-curves and nose down. Without trying to throw nose up too. That's off axis torque probably with wrist extremely down and very flippy and very nose down. Roller territory on hard throws for moderately overstable drivers.

What am I missing in questions that makes the disc fly nose down in air when trying to throw nose up that happens during wrist extension?

I'll try to answer this question and bcsst26's at the same time.

By using wrist extension you're adding alot of different mechanisms to the simple "pull a disc fast in a straight line till it flies out of your hand". If you do it correctly the following should happen without conscious effort: 1. (To answer the questions about the wrist being curled) Your wrist is allowed to remain loose and not tensed so when you begin your pulling motion your wrist will naturally curl. That leads to 2. Tendon bounce when the wrist, elbow, and shoulder extend to create the "hit". The tendon bounce leads to 3. The disc moving on an arc created by the wrist extending. The wrist arc is traveling on the arc made by your elbow extending (and if you want to think about it even more there is a third arc made by your shoulder) and is therefor traveling at the combined speed of both arcs. The wrist extending also leads to 4. the disc rolls out of your hand and rips off of each finger one at a time therefore keeping the added spin from the extension.

The nose down flight comes from the angle that your hand is pivoting on your wrist when your have the top of your wrist pointed in various directions. If you try throwing with your forearm and wrist pointed up and you stop your motion close to the "hit" you'll see how everything is rotated over and is now pointed downward, including the top of your wrist and subsequently the disc.

[geoloseth]

The excersize with the "FLING" disc and pinching with the index finger and thumb was to show how the disc pivots and rolls out of the hand, but it was a bit exaggerated. We were applying virtually no pressure with our other fingers, but when I play I do grip tightly but the biggest pressure points are with my index finger and thumb.

So to answer the question, yes and no. You want a lot of your grip pressure coming from your thumb and index finger, but not ALL of it.