Gripes about the PDGA

Rules Discussion and General PDGA discussion.

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Postby geoloseth » Wed May 07, 2008 1:31 pm

That is a good idea. You really couldn't crank on it because you wouldn't be able to keep your balance. But like it was mentioned, your going to have alot of people who just don't understand what to do or just plan don't care and cheat the rules. I've got it. Put the bunkers in and a trained monkey in each one. Ifsomeone doesnt follow the rules, BAM!!, covered in monkey poo. Now that's a real hazard.
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Postby mark12b » Wed May 07, 2008 2:06 pm

Working Stiff wrote:
Fritz wrote:Not really, because the bunker makes a hard shot. You can't really have a bunker in disc golf because it wouldn't hurt your chances at a good shot.
Way back when we played an event with bunkers that had a "stand & deliver" rule. You had to set your foot behind the mini and throw. You also had to show balance like you were in the putting circle. The intent was to take away the run-up and make the shot harder like a bunker shot in ball golf without giving a stroke penalty. So it was harder, but if you executed the bunker shot you could recover.

We only did it once because A) everybody screwed it up like they were six years old and couldn't understand simple TD instructions and B) it wasn't nearly worth listening to all the bitching and whining from they guys who didn't want to do it AND the guys who did want to do it who were sick of watching other players cheat at it all day. So much for innovation.


for a real challenge they should have made it "sit and deliver" :twisted:
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Postby wdb4th » Wed May 07, 2008 2:18 pm

Throw off handed out of a hazard.
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Postby matchu » Wed May 07, 2008 2:56 pm

we have used man made bunkers at Texas states and other houston tourneys, created by neal dambra.
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Postby C. B. » Wed May 07, 2008 3:22 pm

wdb4th wrote:Still haven't gotten my players pack from the PDGA this year


+1

Joined in early Feb. I did receive the latest Flying Disc Magizine, but that's been it so far.
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Postby some call me...tim? » Wed May 07, 2008 3:47 pm

Renewed a while ago, and haven't received jack sh...ucks. :evil:
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Postby Fritz » Wed May 07, 2008 4:02 pm

You need to Send a message to Addie. If you dont' they have no clue you haven't received it. They will assume you have received it.


I sent a message to Addie and I received mine 4 days later.
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Postby Working Stiff » Wed May 07, 2008 9:29 pm

Fritz wrote:
Working Stiff wrote:
Fritz wrote:Not really, because the bunker makes a hard shot. You can't really have a bunker in disc golf because it wouldn't hurt your chances at a good shot.
Way back when we played an event with bunkers that had a "stand & deliver" rule. You had to set your foot behind the mini and throw. You also had to show balance like you were in the putting circle. The intent was to take away the run-up and make the shot harder like a bunker shot in ball golf without giving a stroke penalty. So it was harder, but if you executed the bunker shot you could recover.

We only did it once because A) everybody screwed it up like they were six years old and couldn't understand simple TD instructions and B) it wasn't nearly worth listening to all the bitching and whining from they guys who didn't want to do it AND the guys who did want to do it who were sick of watching other players cheat at it all day. So much for innovation.


Now that's a kewl idea for a bunker, Stand and Deliver, Balance inside 30 putt rule. I like it.
Here is a paraphrasing of an actual conversation that day:
TD (me): Jay, I had guys on two cards tell my you used a run-up in the bunker area.
Jay: That line? I thought that was an O.B. line.
TD: So why didn't you play it O.B.?
Jay: We checked the card, and it was marked a bunker hole. You said no O.B. on the bunker holes.
TD: So you thought I came out here and painted a line and marked it with flags, and then wanted you to play the hole like it wasn't there?
Jay: Well, I've been telling you that you are a dumb ass for years. It seemed to fit.
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Postby Working Stiff » Wed May 07, 2008 11:49 pm

the invisible tree wrote:It's a great business model that the PDGA have. Have your members volunteer to do almost all of the work for free. Then charge those same member/volunteers for the services that they have mostly provided for themselves. Then call anyone that complains about it ungrateful.
There is a lot of truth to that statement. Then again, it's not that simple. What the PDGA does is run a tour, and that tour does not really attract any new players to the sport. However the events do help to energize and bring focus to the local Clubs, and it is those Clubs that attract new players to the sport. Without the motivation of the PDGA tour events, would those Clubs be as effective as they are in bringing new players to the sport? That is impossible to know for sure.

The PDGA has a couple of built-in problems. One of them is the fact that "professional" disc golf predates amateur and recreational disc golf. Guys were competing in "golf" at IFA events before there was such a thing as a Pole Hole or a single permanent disc golf course that could develop recreational players. So the sport has developed upside-down. As amateur play develops and the sport tips into a right side-up structure, it has created some odd (and often pointless) challenges to overcome.

Also, the PDGA is the only national (and international) organization dedicated to disc golf, so it finds itself in the position of needing to be all things to all people. We can't even get the people on this thread to agree about the 2M rule...try getting every disc golfer in the World on the same page. For example...If you follow PDGA rules, they have brought back the option to let someone play up in Open and accept merch if they cash to stay Am. This encourages more people to play Open and contributes more money to the Open prize purse. Only...the Open guys just can't seem to understand how this rule helps them, so they bitch about it all the time and DISCOURAGE people from doing it. The PDGA can't fix stupid.

There are some good things that the PDGA has developed. SSA's and round ratings have helped with the fact that par means nothing in disc golf. Player ratings are pretty cool also. Somebody has to pay Chuck Kennedy. :P

So basically it is just a player-run organization overseeing a player-organized tour for a player-driven sport. If you play in sanctioned tournaments, then you de facto like what they provide and you should pay your dues. If you don't play in sanctioned tournaments, well, you can make up your own mind.
Last edited by Working Stiff on Thu May 08, 2008 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ChUcK » Thu May 08, 2008 12:12 am

Tim_the_Enchanter wrote:Renewed a while ago, and haven't received jack sh...ucks. :evil:


I got a bumper sticker and a keychain. :roll:

(just for the record, I'm not that short-sighted. I also received ratings, $10 bucks off tourneys, and the right to bitch about the PDGA)
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Postby some call me...tim? » Thu May 08, 2008 8:22 am

Working Stiff wrote:
the invisible tree wrote:It's a great business model that the PDGA have. Have your members volunteer to do almost all of the work for free. Then charge those same member/volunteers for the services that they have mostly provided for themselves. Then call anyone that complains about it ungrateful.
There is a lot of truth to that statement. Then again, it's not that simple. What the PDGA does is run a tour, and that tour does not really attract any new players to the sport. However the events to help to energize and bring focus to the local Clubs, and it is those Clubs that attract new players to the sport. Without the motivation of the PDGA tour events, would those Clubs be as effective as they are in bringing new players to the sport? That is impossible to know for sure.

The PDGA has a couple of built-in problems. One of them is the fact that "professional" disc golf predates amateur and recreational disc golf. Guys were competing in "golf" at IFA events before there was such a thing as a Pole Hole or a single permanent disc golf course that could develop recreational players. So the sport has developed upside-down. As amateur play develops and the sport tips into a right side-up structure, it has created some odd (and often pointless) challenges to overcome.

Also, the PDGA is the only national (and international) organization dedicated to disc golf, so it finds itself in the position of needing to be all things to all people. We can't even get the people on this thread to agree about the 2M rule...try getting every disc golfer in the World on the same page. For example...If you follow PDGA rules, they have brought back the option to let someone play up in Open and accept merch if they cash to stay Am. This encourages more people to play Open and contributes more money to the Open prize purse. Only...the Open guys just can't seem to understand how this rule helps them, so they bitch about it all the time and DISCOURAGE people from doing it. The PDGA can't fix stupid.

There are some good things that the PDGA has developed. SSA's and round ratings have helped with the fact that par means nothing in disc golf. Player ratings are pretty cool also. Somebody has to pay Chuck Kennedy. :P

So basically it is just a player-run organization overseeing a player-organized tour for a player-driven sport. If you play in sanctioned tournaments, then you de facto like what they provide and you should pay your dues. If you don't play in sanctioned tournaments, well, you can make up your own mind.


Well said, Stiff.
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Postby jtkustomizer » Thu May 08, 2008 8:42 am

Here in kansas if you land in a bunker it it mandantory that you throw a U.D. to get out..... the disc must fly upside down in part of its flight.

I landed in a bunker on a drive and the bunker was 20' from the basket on a very windy day. so I putt upside down to get my birdie and the round keeps going like normal.

Bunkers are not a bad thing you just need to know how to play them properly.
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Postby Eric O » Thu May 08, 2008 11:07 am

Tim_the_Enchanter wrote:Well said, Stiff.

Yep. As usual.
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Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu May 08, 2008 10:01 pm

BTW, the PDGA also got rid of the OB rule. Really. There's no OB on the course unless the TD specifies the location. All water is casual unless called OB specifically. It's now the same with the 2m rule. If it makes sense to have a certain tree or group of trees have the 2m rule, the TD can specify that. It's called course design and determining where OB and 2m rules are used are tools for the designer to provide challenges.
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Postby mark12b » Fri May 09, 2008 12:02 am

chuck, can a td also specify OB for only certain types of shots? over on odsa there's a discussion about a questionable rule at a recent tournament -- td specified that if a tee shot went OB without touching the IB ground first, then it was a retee with penalty. if the shot skipped or rolled out, then it was player's choice to retee or take the shot from the spot it went ob. this rule seems to give an advantage to people who can throw rollers. (and, the way it was worded, it ignored all of the IB stuff a disc could hit besides the ground, so it was confusing too.)
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