Showing control

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Showing control

Postby disctribution » Thu May 08, 2008 3:36 pm

I'm sure this topic has been discussed and exhausted on the PDGA forum, but I'm sick of everyone there just griping about how much the PDGA sucks. So I thought I'd try the question here.....

When you're inside 10 meters, what is the exact moment you can begin forward movement, cross your lie, and pick out your putt. I've heard that you must "show control", "be balanced", and other things, but this is all based on opinion. If you think you are "showing control" that doesn't mean that someone else thinks you are. I see pros throw there putt, immediately reach down, pick up their marker, then get their disc out. This seems fine to me. However, if you throw your putt, and instead of picking up your marker, begin walking forward you will be called for falling putt. I am one of the "pick up your marker" kinda putters because I never get called for anything, but some of my friends will walk directly to basket. There has got to be a precise physical point in which it is legal to begin crossing your lie, right? Why couldn't it be as easy as "As soon as your disc is at rest"?

Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Is there a simple answer?
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Re: Showing control

Postby Working Stiff » Thu May 08, 2008 3:59 pm

disctribution wrote: Is there a simple answer?
No.

Actually, yes. If you are under control, it does not matter when you move forward. The move forward is not considered your follow-though, it is a separate move toward the hole. If you are out of balance, you have to regain your balance behind your marker before you move past your marker. A lot of people think they can lunge forward and hang there until the putt comes to rest, then step past the marker. According to the rule it is still a falling putt since they still did not demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.

So you have to look like you reasonably maintained your balance behind your marker. If you look like you are about to fall on your face and don't regain your balance with all supporting points behind the marker, you run the risk of getting called for a falling putt.
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Postby ChUcK » Thu May 08, 2008 4:04 pm

I'm not so sure there is a simple answer.

I guess the only way to completely eliminate all doubt would be to implement some cumbersome rule like "no moving forward of your lie until 3 seconds have passed." I know it sounds stupid, but an amount of time (Objective) instead of demonstrating balance (Subjective) would solve it. It's also more universal and definite than an idea of waiting until the disc comes to rest, which could be anywhere from 1/2 second to 30 seconds, depending upon the luck of the roll.

I don't like the phrasing of balance control. Rarely do I see a DGer fall on his/her ass after a putt, or even come close.
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Postby MDR_3000 » Thu May 08, 2008 8:23 pm

just because you don't fall on your ass doesn't mean you aren't balanced...

It's actually pretty easy to tell if someone is balanced or not.

do you only fail the "walk the line" test if you fall on your ass?
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Postby Working Stiff » Thu May 08, 2008 9:33 pm

MDR_3000 wrote:just because you don't fall on your ass doesn't mean you aren't balanced...

It's actually pretty easy to tell if someone is balanced or not.

do you only fail the "walk the line" test if you fall on your ass?
It is pretty easy to see "balanced" when you are looking at it. My biggest problem with calling falling putts is not the rule, it's me. I always watch the throw and don't pay any attention to the thrower. When I'm on a three man card, you won't get a second on a falling putt because I won't see it UNLESS the guy pratfalls on his face.
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Postby disctribution » Thu May 08, 2008 10:07 pm

This is exactly the point I am making. Everyone seems to have their own perception of balance. Sounds like you guys don't even really know when to call a falling putt either. I'm just saying I wish there was some definitive answer, and that the rule is not subjective, and up to someone's perception of what is balanced. An OB line, a miscounted score card, 2 meter rule, even a towell under your knee, all these things are cut and dry. Falling putt seems to be different things to different people.
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Postby ChUcK » Thu May 08, 2008 10:13 pm

I know when to call a falling putt. I'm just inferring that the whole issue is subjective and a lot of gray area exists as far as demonstrated balance.
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Postby Working Stiff » Thu May 08, 2008 10:34 pm

disctribution wrote:This is exactly the point I am making. Everyone seems to have their own perception of balance. Sounds like you guys don't even really know when to call a falling putt either. I'm just saying I wish there was some definitive answer, and that the rule is not subjective, and up to someone's perception of what is balanced. An OB line, a miscounted score card, 2 meter rule, even a towell under your knee, all these things are cut and dry. Falling putt seems to be different things to different people.
Not really. I know a falling putt when I see it. I just usually don't see it. Thats not really an issue with a subjective rule, thats an issue with someone who is not acting as an official while they play even though there are no actual officials so it is my responsibility to be one.

Really there are some rules that are open to interpretation that I'd like to see clarified, but the falling putt is not one of them. What happens is that there are a lot of people who simply don't know the rules, and others who won't point out a violation even if they do see it. With the absence of officials watching us, people tend to get away with a lot of stuff. Like I said earlier, there is a guy I play with a lot who lunges forward when he throws, hangs in the air until the disc comes to rest, and then steps in front of his mini. He never demonstrates full control of balance before advancing toward the hole. It's a falling putt, plain and simple. I've called him on it, so he knows not to do it when he is on my card. But most of the time he does it and gets away with it, and he has been for years. That's not an issue with the rule, its an issue with how the rule is enforced.
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Postby Solbo » Fri May 09, 2008 11:42 am

I know a falling putt when I see one.
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Postby Mars Volta » Mon May 12, 2008 10:07 pm

How about you must pick up your marker or show complete control before advancing towards the hole. Picking up your marker after your shot pretty much does the same thing.
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Postby rehder » Tue May 13, 2008 12:07 am

Ive actually lost control trying to pick up my marker in one swift move :lol:
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Postby Working Stiff » Tue May 13, 2008 9:39 am

rehder wrote:Ive actually lost control trying to pick up my marker in one swift move :lol:
I've totally fallen on my ass picking up my mini! I've done that A LOT more times than I've lost my balance putting! :P
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