Gummy vs hard QMS

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Gummy vs hard QMS

Postby JR » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:59 am

I lost my hard first edition (CE plastic) QMS almost two years ago. I was glad that I saw that the local importer had clear QMSes so I got one thinking that since we are in backwaters it might be a first run. I thought that it would be a worthy successor to the only mid I've used in the last year if one doesn't classify the Storm as a mid. Imagine my surprise once I held one. I wasn't aware of gummy versions.

I've only thrown it on two days and my form is way off because basically I can't stand straight(almost) recovering from a flu. Still on x stepped throws I get way too many annies when I try to get straight flight by having a lot of initial hyzer. My power and form is much better than with the first QMS I had. I think the hyzer angle at the rip is around the same as with the previous disc.

Is the gummy QMS more understable than the current hard QMSes and the first run for you? Is it as wind resistant as the first run? There wasn't enough wind to alter flight for the QMS. Was it just me messing up something? How far can you throw a gummy QMS straight and how much initial hyzer angle you use?

Mine is a beautiful disc for long annies that need to move left to right a lot. It holds height better and moves farther right than my Wizard. I just couldn't give the QMS as much power without makng it flip over as I can a Wizard making the QMS a shorter straight disc for me. I like that I don't need to throw as hard for shorter standing throws which makes control, accuracy and predictability a bit better than with Wizards. The fade isn't that much larger than with the Wizard so in many places it's not an issue.

I hit a tree at about 170' and and the disc bounced back to the fairway about 10' from an impact height of 6'. The disc flexed up and down mid air for most of the flight to the ground. My initial gut feeling is that the gumminess absorbed a lot of the energy of the throw making it bounce less sideways. Yummy! Me like me like a lot :-)
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Postby ericdmb » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:32 am

as a faithfull supporter and user of the QMS, I will say I HATE the gummy disc. Same reasons as you, it has way too much anny for me! I have used the stiff version of the disc for years now, retireing two of them, each with 2 aces! I have ZAMson sending me 2 brand new dyed stiff QMSs as we speak as they are the only choice for me when it comes to my midrange game!

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Postby ADiscand3Plates » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:47 am

I got the other side of this one. I don't have the arm you guys do. The gummy QMS does me just fine. A little turn to the right, then a little turn to the left and we are done. You want more left turn, throw a little bit higher or get out your trusty Sirius Sentinel. You want more right turn, get out your trusty beat-to-death Millennium MS.

I never did like the grip of a hard QMS.
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Postby JR » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:47 am

ADiscand3Plates wrote:I got the other side of this one. I don't have the arm you guys do. The gummy QMS does me just fine. A little turn to the right, then a little turn to the left and we are done. You want more left turn, throw a little bit higher or get out your trusty Sirius Sentinel. You want more right turn, get out your trusty beat-to-death Millennium MS.

I never did like the grip of a hard QMS.


Both the gummy and the firs trun QMSes have flashing. With the CE version it stayed on for the whole time that I had it. It's not as bad with the gummy version. And I hope it'l wear at some point.

For me the QMS is fine when I throw standing still. It makes a little s-curve when I really rip it.
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Postby JR » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:59 pm

ZAMson wrote:Currently in my bag, I've got a first run/CE QMS at 180g, a gummy QMS at 180g, an SMS at 169g, and auditioning a first run at 169g. Before the SMS and CE, I'd have a gummy and a stiff.

I find that for ripping drives, the CE will flatten up and take all the power more than any other run/plastic. My stiff QMS was similar, with a little more turn. With the gummy QMS, I use that to hold a line more... big hyzers, big annys, or straight up. I've decided that the slightly wobbly plastic gives it more gyroscopic action (you can feel it flatten when you throw), and that a little off-axis will make it flutter and turn over, but on a smooth plane I can have it resist that turn. I can't throw it balls-out like my CE, and I have a looser grip on it that just snaps out. It's sweet though... between the grip and the flight, I end up throwing it with lower power and more accuracy. I am more comfortable throwing annys with the gummy than the other ones. I love em all, and I'd say the gummy is my favorite right behind the CE. Also, the gummies and CE tend to be flatter on top than the M, stiff Q, or S plastic.


Which grip are you using? So far I've only thrown the gummy with the power grip like I did the CE.
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Postby Jerry R » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:24 pm

Is the difference between the stiff and gummy obvious if you don't have two to compare? I have two QMS, but they are both the same. I also have a SMS.
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Postby JR » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:05 pm

Jerry R wrote:Is the difference between the stiff and gummy obvious if you don't have two to compare? I have two QMS, but they are both the same. I also have a SMS.


The difference _is_ very no brainer :-) I'm afraid that in summer the gummy disc will melt and lose the original shape. The softest discs before the gummy QMS that I've had were the softie 86 and Omega SS. The gummy QMS is softer than both of those.
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Postby honkeytiger » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:01 pm

Anybody got a gummy QMS they are willing to part with? The floppier the better.
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Postby JR » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:07 am

ZAMson wrote:But I'd say the gummies are just as durable as the stiff ones.


To me my disc is both pliable and soft but the pliability is definitely the major effect on the feel. It's funny how things changed with a grip change. I get a lot more pressure from my thumb against middle and ring fingers now and the disc has about 5 degrees of bend in the flight plate. I'm not talking about the intedentation around the thumb but an actual angle change of the flight plate. About a sixth of the area of the disc in the area where I grip the disc is bent down when I grip the disc. The shape returns to normal when the disc leaves the hand. Now I get much more stable flight. And no surprising annies. But still I need to give some initial hyzer for straight flight. The angles get uncomfortable to me if I try to throw straight beyond 200'.

What's weird is that other discs had similar results with the grip change except that now I don't need any hyzer at all with Wizards with x stepped throws. The only reasons so far that I've found for using the gummy QMS over the Wizard is for high throws and annies that need to fly high and far to the right. Maybe on a day when one is absolutely dead and has only a fraction of power left then the QMS might give better distance than a Wizard. I don't see a situation where I would drive straight with the QMS with steps. For long throws standing still I'd still pick the Wizard for most throws. Only if I need to overthrow an object and need to move only a short distance maybe about 170' then the QMS can be better.

The grip I fell in love with has the pad of the pinky either on the wing or the corner of the rim and the wing. There's no difference except comfort that I've noticed. The middle finger is almost straight and the ring finger curled back a bit but still way off the rim. The thumb is very much off the rim towards the center but forward of the center line between the middle and ring fingers. Pushing slightly front and a lot to the right. The indexd finger pushes from the wing against the tumb. The finger is bent for maximum muscle power into the wing.

I used this with drivers, the QMS and putters. Even my 169 gram broken in bent D Rattler flew straight without initial hyzer with x stepped hard drive like an APX. Straight as a string for the Rattler and slightly annied for the APX that I threw with full power. Man this grip is comfortable and helps to give consistently more nose down that I've currently had. Nice! Seemed accurate too. I didn't compare the distance with drivers versus a power grip.
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Postby JR » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:57 am

ZAMson wrote:After talking about these I played a mostly QMS round yesterday... didn't realize how far I could get these on a line... stuff I'd normally do with a JLS. Threw one hole backwards, about 275', and landed all four on the teepad. They took more height than I'm used to, but damn they were straight. I did work out my accidental anny problems, which was all off-axis and overpowering... used to couldn't put the mustard on to get them far. The old warehouse guys throw the snot out of QMS, so I know it can be done.

So here's my theory on what a QMS is... Ontario Roc top and core, and Stingray wing. Basically a modified/beadless O-Roc wing... not a beadless Roc wing, but a beadless wing that averages the form of the beaded wing in a beadless form. If that makes any sense. Just look at those three discs, QMS, O-Roc, and Stingray, and see what you think. I've never confirmed it, I just got that from observation. Makes sense though... glidey, straight midrange driver.

Champion Ontario Roc with a beadless wing... you'd think they'd cost more.


275' is much better than I'm getting now. I have thrown 300' with the CE way back when I didn't have as much power and miserable form with the slightest of s-curves. That's what bothers me. This is the only disc that I've had these troubles with so far. With the new grip every other disc that I've tried benefitted hugely, the QMS only a bit. I'll have to train more with it. When I back off power I get straight flights but only about 230' and with much less predictability than with Wizard, Rattler, APX and drivers. Weird. On the other hand with these grips that I've tried I can't snap well yet which explains some things. But not the 300' with the old disc vs 230' with the new one.

Is that 275' with a hard or gummy disc?
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Postby JR » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:04 pm

ZAMson wrote:
JR wrote:Is that 275' with a hard or gummy disc?


All four of em... 180 CE and Gummy Q, 169 CE and Sirius. The two lighter ones are specifically for touch shots and annys. The lighter ones I gave a little more hyzer.. none of them flipped that much, but they all hit the same spot and took the flight from there.


Ok it's me then. Troubleshooting it is. Or hopefully non troubled shooting :-)
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