Week 1 - 5/1 through 5/8: Line Shaping

Sets of drills targeted at developing a full skill sets of shots and mastery of flight characteristics. Players taking part are encouraged to post their experiences and feedback.

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Week 1 - 5/1 through 5/8: Line Shaping

Postby Blake_T » Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:09 pm

Where to perform the drill: Practice Field
What you will need: 3-10 discs from your normal bag
Make sure to include:
1) Main Straight Driver
2) Most Overstable Disc
3) Most Understable Disc
4) Main Midrange Disc
5) Main Putt & Approach Disc

Task:
Throw your discs in an open field and find ways to throw them so that they all fly with a similar flight path. With each set of throws you should get better and better at shaping the line and compensating for under/overstability. Power and distance are of little concern in this drill. Focus your attention to hyzer/anhyzer angles as well as nose angles to manipulate the flight to the desired path. I do not recommend making more than 100 throws in a day unless this is something you are already accustomed to doing.

*Note* The pictures here are just some representations of possible flight shapes, yours may differ slightly.

Step 1: Straight Flight.
Your goal here is to throw all of the discs you have chosen and get them to fly straight for the majority of their flight and finish slightly left. It is okay to have some "play" in the line, especially with your overstable discs as they will likely have to be thrown with some anhyzer. Get as close as you can to an idealized line as possible.
Image

Step 2: Sweeping Hyzer.
Your goal here is to throw your discs on a hyzer line pulled out to the right and fading it back to the left. You should be able to get your most understable discs to hold this line without flattening.
Image

Step 3: S-Curve.
Your goal here is to get every disc to hold a turn and flex back to the left late in its flight. The key to this is finding the right combination of angles and height to make sure every disc will both turn and flex.
Image

Step 4: Turnover.
Your goal here is to make every disc hold a right turn without fading. This is similar to step 3 in seeking angles and height that will shape this path.
Image

Please post your comments/experiences.
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Postby presidio hills » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:46 pm

blake,

is was wondering what discs you recomend for the 'most understable' in this drill. out of my stash... i could use a couple of beat pro line orcs, or some DX stingrays. i also have some D XLs, but they are not beat in enough to be as flippy as the orcs or stingrays. on the course i've been using rocs, putters, and the D XLs instead of very understable stuff... but for this drill i wonder if i should dig into the stash for something that's actually 'most understable'
thanks.

i'm really excited you have these nice drills posted up. i'll be sure to follow along and let you know how it works out.
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Postby Blake_T » Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:08 pm

use your own discretion.

it's mainly a point about being able to throw discs that usually turn and make them not turn, or even better, make them fly overstable if needed through angles, nose angles, wrist rolls, etc.
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Postby sleepy » Wed May 03, 2006 8:49 pm

I worked on this step of the training regimen today.

Discs I used:

1) Main Straight Driver - Z Xpress 174g
2) Most Overstable Disc - Pro Firebird (FL) 172g
3) Most Understable Disc - DX Valkyrie 175g (Beat to crap...bought used for $4 to use as a roller disc)
4) Main Midrange Disc - DX Roc 175g (pretty beat) and a Pro-D Buzz 177g (brand new...just got it at Sunday's tourney)
5) Main Putt & Approach Disc - DX Aviar P&A 175g (getting beat in) and a Soft Proto Wizard 175g (still new...just now starting to beat in a little)

I tried not to throw for distance and concentrate more on my form and the flight path of the disc. I was able to do this for the most part, but did find myself forgetting from time to time. Most throws were performed from a stand-still; or by stepping into the throw with my front (right) foot to help with weight transfer. I concentrated on body rotation and snapping my arm through while at the same time trying to accelerate through the release.

What I found:

Step 1: Straight Flight.
This first drill was very helpful in developing snap and the feel for the timing of the throwing motion. I was able to throw much lower and more nose down by not trying to incorporate a full x-step...which leads me to believe I have timing issues when using a run-up :| I also found that I was able to throw, from a stand-still, each disc about 2/3 of the distance that I usually throw using a run-up!

Favorite disc: Z Xpress
For low-power finesse shots, this disc is dead-on straight, with a predictable fade at the end. If thrown low enough, I could probably put it down before the fade came into play. I'll be using this one for tight tunnel shots.

Suprise disc: Wizard
I guess I shouldn't be suprised, but this disc flew almost as far as my Roc, without an inch of play in it's straight flight path. Granted, it needed more height and a good amount of snap, but it was impressive.

Step 2: Sweeping Hyzer
A shot I thought I was familiar with, but learned some new aspects of it. I didn't realize just how much distance I could get while still making the disc hold a hyzer line. I guess not everything has to be a steep spike hyzer!

Favorite disc: All of them!
All my discs seemed to do this shot well. There were some that were obviously easier to throw longer on a hyzer, and some that were easier to sweep way out to the right and have come back to center, but they were all capable of performing some variation of the shot well.

Surprise disc: DX Valk
For as beat up as this disc is, it really held a line well. I also found it to be the longest disc when holding a shallower sweep-hyzer. If, for example, i had to stay no more than 20' away from a tree-line for 200' and then finish to the left when the trees ended after that, this disc performed best.

Step 3: S-Curve
This was a great shot to see just how far I could push a disc into that turn and still have it come back. The DX Valk was capable of some big shots in this category; but the risk was too great. A little too much turn, and it was looooong gone to the right.

Favorite disc: Z Xpress
This disc is a great straigh flyer, and with just a little bit of anhzyer, will hold a slight turn for a long way before beginning it's fade. Maybe this will change as it beats in, but for now it's a pretty disc to watch. The Roc was also capable of some nice curvy flights.

Surprise disc: Pro-D Buzz
I was only able to do it once, but I had just the right combo of height, release angle and snap, and my Buzzz flew almost 250'...from a one-step stand-still! It held that turn, glided forever, and just when I thought it was going to drop from the sky it straightened out and then faded for another 20'. Definitely going to have to practice that shot again! :)

Step 4: Turnover
A shot that I have liked for some time, but only around the pin when finessing my way around trees, and dropping onto the basket from above. I realized a few routes at my home course that are now open to me since I have a better idea of what disc in my bag will hold a long turnover shot.

Favorite Disc: DX Valk
No question about it. This thing will go right for a mile. I was able to manipulate the flight path and make it go right after 50', after 100', etc. The nice thing about it was that once it had turned right, it carried for extra distance on an almost straight line...very nice for dogleg holes to the right.

Surprise DIsc: Aviar Putter
I think my Aviar is at the stage of beat-in where it is changing to the next point of understability. Before, when thrown on an anhyzer line, it would fight to get stable during the last stages of flight. Now, it holds the line all the way to the ground. On a few throws, I really turned it over hard, and actually set it down as a roller and it took off towards the parking lot :!:


All in all, it was a great learning experience and I recommend it to everyone...newbies and veterans alike.

Thanks Blake!


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Postby Thatdirtykid » Wed May 03, 2006 10:45 pm

I consiciencely worked on these yesterday also using
1 S Sabre broken in
2 z pred
3 X avenger
4 S element X
5 Medium Wizard beat

the only shots I had problems with at all was getting the Z pred to turnover consistantly, with a wrist roll and some anny I could get it to hold a turn, but not accurately.

The S element X is fairly new and more overstable than I like to throw for my main mid (I like less stable plastic, I play a bit of a touch game, and live at high alt) it was alittle tricky to anny w/ out fade, if I rolled my wrist much it would flip over, so I accually learned a new shot by rolling my wrist slow and smooth.

and to mention I love throwing less stable plastic for sweep hyzers. Ive been approaching hyzer (when theres room) 100-175' with the beat wizard (my anny wizard) I feel its more accurate. I do still carry a E wizard for hyzers in the 175-225 range for consistanty reasons.

Blake would it be redundant to encorparate hyzerflips into this section of the program, I know that some of these throws require alittle hyzerflip to be performed with certian discs but mabey more? (Im finding hyzerflips are the best shot for alot of stuff I would have taken a lower percentage shot)
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Postby Blake_T » Thu May 04, 2006 12:20 am

thanks for posting your experiences so far.

seems like you are learning at least a few new things from the drill so far.

the only shots I had problems with at all was getting the Z pred to turnover consistantly, with a wrist roll and some anny I could get it to hold a turn, but not accurately.


there's a trick to this shot... involves a late release and forcing the disc a lot more nose down as well as keeping a low trajectory. wat you will get is a slow bank right that will land nearly flat but skip/slide forwards.

This was a great shot to see just how far I could push a disc into that turn and still have it come back. The DX Valk was capable of some big shots in this category; but the risk was too great. A little too much turn, and it was looooong gone to the right.


i'd recommend playing around with the height on this shot. i have a valk that is so flippy that it will roll if i throw it with 40 degrees of hyzer. however, i can crush this disc... it just takes about 60' of height to get it to do a full flight. on its bad throws it ends up ~330'. on its good throws, closer to 425'. there's a lot of potential with this shot.

Blake would it be redundant to encorparate hyzerflips into this section of the program, I know that some of these throws require alittle hyzerflip to be performed with certian discs but mabey more? (Im finding hyzerflips are the best shot for alot of stuff I would have taken a lower percentage shot)


if players have a flippy enough disc, the straight, s-curve, and turnover drives should be a hyzer flip. also, if you throw flippy "stable" discs like i do, the all of those shots are also hyzer flips for me. i didn't list it as it isn't something that can be done with every disc.

if I rolled my wrist much it would flip over, so I accually learned a new shot by rolling my wrist slow and smooth.


this shot is actually known as a "roll cuve" and is a very useful shot for late turns that require a lot of carry. if you work enough with it you'll find you have a tremendous amount of control on when, and how much a disc flips over.
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Postby sleepy » Thu May 04, 2006 6:40 am

Blake_T wrote:
This was a great shot to see just how far I could push a disc into that turn and still have it come back. The DX Valk was capable of some big shots in this category; but the risk was too great. A little too much turn, and it was looooong gone to the right.


i'd recommend playing around with the height on this shot. i have a valk that is so flippy that it will roll if i throw it with 40 degrees of hyzer. however, i can crush this disc... it just takes about 60' of height to get it to do a full flight. on its bad throws it ends up ~330'. on its good throws, closer to 425'. there's a lot of potential with this shot.


Thanks Blake, I'll do that. I had, up until now, been purposely beating this disc against the ground and flexing it in half in hopes of making it more domey and turning it into a roller. Should I stop doing this and just use it for S curves until it naturally becomes a roller on its own?

Also, should I keep performing these Week 1 drills several times this week before moving on to Week 2; or is each weekly session only meant to be completed once?


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Postby Thatdirtykid » Thu May 04, 2006 9:53 am

thanks for the insight, Ill have to work one some of those some more, but its not like im not constantly working on stuff anyways ;-)
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Postby Blake_T » Thu May 04, 2006 9:54 am

Should I stop doing this and just use it for S curves until it naturally becomes a roller on its own?


unnaturally beating discs in generally yields some odd flight changes.
when you naturally break a disc in it loses its fade first, high speed stability second.

when you force a break in, a disc loses its high speed stability quickly, and its low speed fade much later (it becomes squirrely).

dx valks are fairly fragile and you should be able to beat one into a roller simply by throwing it on say, every drive off the tee on a wooded course for about 10 rounds.

Also, should I keep performing these Week 1 drills several times this week before moving on to Week 2; or is each weekly session only meant to be completed once?


the sessions are mainly to point out missing shots in your game as well as teach flight manipulation of discs. i do this drill often just as normal practice on the field. if you haven't done this with every disc in your bag, you may benefit from messing around with them in this way. it seems you were able to get something out of the drill, so there probably isn't a need to repeat it formally.
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Postby Rickg » Sat May 06, 2006 12:06 pm

Here's my experience:

Main straight driver: DX Teebird
Most overstable: Champ Firebird
Most understable: Stratus X
Main mid-range: DX Roc
Putt & approach: Soft Wizard

My biggest problem was getting the Firebird to stay turned over. This is probably related to the same trouble "thatdirtykid" had with his Z Pred. My biggest surprise was that I could throw my Wizard 280+! I really don't know why I had never used it off the tee before, but you can bet that I'll be using it in the future. I also tried to get each disc to have the same sort of flight path using thumbers and tomahawks. I found that by changing the release angle, you could get a similar flight path between discs. This was something I'd suspected would happen, but I'd just always used the Firebird for thumbers/tomahawks. Many thanks for the assignments Blake, I think the learning curve just got some acceleration!
DUH--I just noticed the "Bonus Assignment" on thumbers/tomahawks!
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Sat May 06, 2006 1:38 pm

I kept working on it and I can get the pred to hold an anny for about 250' and then hit the ground. If I throw a apex higher than 8' it will genereally fade at the end unless wind assisted.
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Postby jiwaburst » Sat May 06, 2006 3:05 pm

OK, I've done this 'assignment" a few times now.

I used some different discs to do this but mainly:

DX teebird
Star Teebird
E Speed Demon
Venom
Scorpion
Roc(s)
Classic Roc
DX Cheetah
pro starfire
140 dx valk beat (most understable/fast)

Straight line
I suck at this. That's my main realization. I don't throw straight very well. I throw curves every drive, without thinking about it much. Rocs/Scorpion/Classic Roc straight okay. Every thing else I want to turn one way or another. (I can make thing end straight by doing a low S with my Teebirds or high s with my starfire or by doing medium high hyzerflips with the Cheetah)

Sweeping Hyzer

pretty easy with any disc, adjust height and angle a little, but very easy to do

S Curve

also easy with every disc

turnover

had lots of problems with this. Not hard if it is okay to land on edge, but to land flat, not my best thing.

Venom and Speed Demon no way , would be fine if I was going slightly uphill.

Lots of the other discs were also hard to do with regularity. Scorpion was best by far for this. DX Teebird, Rocs, cheetah, valk were not hard to do, but still not %100 accuracy. Classic Roc was harder to not have S back.


Good thing to do over and over again though. Thanks.
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Postby Blake_T » Sun May 07, 2006 11:04 am

as for the turnover problem either:
1) you aren't getting enough height under them so that they can plane out before landing.
2) you are off-axis torquing stuff over a little too much.

if it's 2 that would explain the problem with throwing straight.
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Postby didihitatree » Sun May 07, 2006 11:17 am

I gave this a go on Thursday and again on Saturday. I tried to focus purely on the flight path, not worrying about distance. My findings.

Straight shots: This was pretty easy for me since this is mostly what I throw. For the overstable disc, I found I could either try keep it low and crush it to avoid fade, or I could put a bit of anhzer angle to get a tight S. For the understable discs, I used a hyzer flip which I am still perfecting or simply took a bit off. The distance loss was not that great. Problem area: I found that I'm not as accurate as I'd like. I tried to imagine I was in the woods shooting down a tight corridor and it turns out that probably 1 out of every three or four throws would have caught a tree. Mostly the understable throws.

sweeping hyzer: Didn't really have any problems with this shot. I tried to concentrate on getting a full sweep and flat landing instead of knifing it. I do not think I would have been able to do that with the understable disc a few weeks ago, but the hyzer flip really comes in handy here.

S-curve: Had some problems here. I was okay with my main stable disc (Tracker) and the over stable disc but that was it. Using the approach disc, I threw slightly anhyzer and took a little off. Resulted in a nice, gentle S-curve which would be a nice approach but trying to throw this as a drive was a problem. I'd either turn it over way right or end up throwing a straight, flat shot. The only way I could get an S with the understable disc was to throw it way high and nose up. It did S but it was an ugly shot without much D-- just dies at the end and comes screaming into the ground at an ugly angle.

turnover: I stunk at this. Using my main stable driver, I can throw low with a tad of anhyzer and it worked but I had to really concentrate on not turning it over. With the over stable driver, I kept getting ?-shape drives. With the understable driver I was terrible and just shot it straight to the left. With my approach disc I just wasn't consistent. 1/2 of the shots would be perfect. 1/4 of the shots would fade back which wasn't a disaster, and the remaining 1/4 started turning too early and kept on turning. I found I could throw a C-shape with my approach pretty consistently.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Sun May 07, 2006 3:04 pm

those C shaped approaches (knife anhyzer?) are rather helpful getting out of trouble or over stuff where the hyzer isnt an option but you need alot more left to right than a thumber could ever offer.
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